Utah Denied A Wet Bandit Trade???!!

[Fishsticks]

I didn't say win. We're talking top 3. Anyways, historically, the teams with the worst record get into the top 3.

Too lazy to find out if this is true, but I believe you might be surprised. Anyways understand the chances go up, but point is we are not getting in the top three without those balls falling in our favor with or without Marvin.

 

[Sexual Favors]

Too lazy to find out if this is true, but I believe you might be surprised. Anyways understand the chances go up, but point is we are not getting in the top three without those balls falling in our favor with or without Marvin.

Actually, that is what I said minus the Marvin. You said you are still crossing your fingers for Jabari.

Miracles can happen... so I'll cross my fingers too.

 

[UGLI baby]

We want the most lottery balls possible.

This is the last time I will explain this to any of you.

It i not some mythical process, it is a math equation.

 

[gregbroncs]

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2014/02/rejected-round-williams.html

Basically Chad Ford says in his tank ranking insider piece on ESPN that the Jazz declined to trade Williams despite offers of late 1st rounders in 2014.

From the linked article:

"The Jazz rebuffed “one or two” trade proposals before the deadline that would have netted them a late first-round pick in return for Marvin Williams, as Chad Ford of ESPN.com writes in his latest Insider-only “Tank Rank” piece. There were apparently other intriguing offers on the table as well, but Utah chose to hang on to the ninth-year veteran in hopes of re-signing him this summer, Ford writes"

I'd really be interested to know what those exact offers were. Why did DL not pull the trigger?

They and I like what Marvin is bringing to this team. A late 1st is not a fair offer for him unless they have no chance to re-sign him. I think they will make an effort to bring him back.

 

[gregbroncs]

If true, it's ****ing retarded; any 1st round pick for Marvin is a good haul. Even if he were traded, the Jazz could sign him as a free agent this summer. Not sure I'm buying this story.

No ****ing way he comes back if he's traded. It's delusional to believe otherwise.

 

[Bawse Dawg]

We want the most lottery balls possible.

This is the last time I will explain this to any of you.

It i not some mythical process, it is a math equation.

No you ****ing idiot, don't you remember how the Bulls got Rose? Obviously the 14th spot in the lottery is what we should covet.

 

[[size/HUGE] fixed [/size]]

They and I like what Marvin is bringing to this team. A late 1st is not a fair offer for him unless they have no chance to re-sign him. I think they will make an effort to bring him back.

Marvin is gonna sign with a contender. Book it.

 

[infection]

If we land Jabari, would we need Marvin? So if by keeping Marvin we help rule out Jabari, then we need to keep Marvin because we won't have Jabari, right?

 

[gregbroncs]

If we land Jabari, would we need Marvin? So if by keeping Marvin we help rule out Jabari, then we need to keep Marvin because we won't have Jabari, right?

Nice thing about Marvin is he can play 3 or 4. Jabari can also play both 3 an 4. I see no reason they can't function together.

 

[Doublea]

We want the most lottery balls possible.

This is the last time I will explain this to any of you.

It i not some mythical process, it is a math equation.

You some kind of math wizard?

 

[Doublea]

Nice thing about Marvin is he can play 3 or 4. Jabari can also play both 3 an 4. I see no reason they can't function together.

Easy, move Marvin to the bench player a line up of Burke, Burks, Hayward, Jabari, and Favors. If we still have kanter he'll come off the bench too. Add in some nice filler vet players and we good to go.

 

[infection]

Nice thing about Marvin is he can play 3 or 4. Jabari can also play both 3 an 4. I see no reason they can't function together.

And the more we play Marvin and keep up the "win three more meaningless games" mentality where we finish higher than all the tanking teams (which is what everything we're doing translates to), then landing Jabari becomes a significantly reduced possibility statistically when those three wins will be separating a lot of teams at the end of the season.

I don't think we need to be content with the "well let's just kinda tank and see where the cards fall" idea.

 

[gregbroncs]

And the more we play Marvin and keep up the "win three more meaningless games" mentality where we finish higher than all the tanking teams (which is what everything we're doing translates to), then landing Jabari becomes a significantly reduced possibility statistically when those three wins will be separating a lot of teams at the end of the season.

I don't think we need to be content with the "well let's just kinda tank and see where the cards fall" idea.

Then we build with somebody else. I'm not as sold on the picks in this years draft as others. Also losing does little to guarantee picks. We could end up 8-10 and still pick 1-3. I just don't believe that tanking is the end all be all to fixing a franchise that some here do. Hell GS tanked the hell out of it a few years ago and the guy they got would not help us much if any at all. Top 3 pick or not this team will struggle to make the playoffs for the next 2 years. We just don't have the overall talent level to be competitive and that talent can be acquired in more ways than just the draft.
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I was more about the development of this team and on that score I've been okay with this season. If not the coach taking us there. I still think Kanter and Favors together is unproven and if paired with Marvin and Burke instead of Jefferson and Tinsley could have worked. But overall I've liked the direction of some of the young guys and believe this can be a playoff team with some additions.
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I'm fully aware that neither of these opinions is popular here.

 

[infection]

Then we build with somebody else. I'm not as sold on the picks in this years draft as others. Also losing does little to guarantee picks. We could end up 8-10 and still pick 1-3. I just don't believe that tanking is the end all be all to fixing a franchise that some here do. Hell GS tanked the hell out of it a few years ago and the guy they got would not help us much if any at all. Top 3 pick or not this team will struggle to make the playoffs for the next 2 years. We just don't have the overall talent level to be competitive and that talent can be acquired in more ways than just the draft.
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I was more about the development of this team and on that score I've been okay with this season. If not the coach taking us there. I still think Kanter and Favors together is unproven and if paired with Marvin and Burke instead of Jefferson and Tinsley could have worked. But overall I've liked the direction of some of the young guys and believe this can be a playoff team with some additions.
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I'm fully aware that neither of these opinions is popular here.

I get that there's no guarantee in the lottery, but if you believe, as I do, that a few games will be separating a lot of teams, then that's the difference between a 15% chance of a top 3 pick and a 45% chance at a top 3 pick. We also can't judge this team on this year's roster. It's not like we'll be rolling into next season with the same guys and no bench. This doesn't mean we're going out to buy all-stars, but we'll get reasonable players when we're actually paying. This team, when filled out with reasonable role players we can obtain, will be a decent playoff team in a couple years. This team, coupled with said role players and someone like Jabari, will be championship contenders in a few years. I'm not a guy who overreacts, but that's how I see it. That's why this quasi tanking is so baffling when we consider long-term effects. We need to position ourselves the best way possible.

 

[Fishsticks]

Here is what's off: Marvin is to be blamed for ruining the tank. Seriously????WTFFFF?????? Turn your animosity towards the org or the moronic coach. Jesus this debate is so ****ing stupid. Lol lol lol rofl

 

[Fishsticks]

We hate you Marvin cuz you are too good!! Now get the **** out.. Lulz.

 

[gregbroncs]

I get that there's no guarantee in the lottery, but if you believe, as I do, that a few games will be separating a lot of teams, then that's the difference between a 15% chance of a top 3 pick and a 45% chance at a top 3 pick. We also can't judge this team on this year's roster. It's not like we'll be rolling into next season with the same guys and no bench. This doesn't mean we're going out to buy all-stars, but we'll get reasonable players when we're actually paying. This team, when filled out with reasonable role players we can obtain, will be a decent playoff team in a couple years. This team, coupled with said role players and someone like Jabari, will be championship contenders in a few years. I'm not a guy who overreacts, but that's how I see it. That's why this quasi tanking is so baffling when we consider long-term effects. We need to position ourselves the best way possible.

It's my belief that if you trade assets for nothing then you will continually be building. I'm glad the Jazz don't trade people just to trade. Or to make the team worse to get a better pick. When does that end? Marvin is a good player that could be a valuable part of our team if they retain him. I'm not sure Wiggins, Parker or anybody else in this draft will be all that much better. I've heard #'s thrown around for Marvin and the #'s I see would make him a very valuable piece of this team going forward. If he costs too much so be it let him go.
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I want a good draft pick. I just don't think it's in the coaches or players best interest to tank. I also don't think it sends the right message to the players for the FO to intentionally tank. Trading pieces for close to equal assets can be sold to the remaining team. Trading guys for little to nothing pisses off the current players and hurts your franchise in their eyes.

 

[Sexual Favors]

Then we build with somebody else. I'm not as sold on the picks in this years draft as others. Also losing does little to guarantee picks.

False.

By a raise of hands, how many people on this board never took math? Losing = more lottery balls. More lottery balls = a higher percentage for landing in the top 3. After the top 3, your team's standing determines your pick. So in both cases losing more gets you a better pick.

The only thing that could be said is that getting the worst record doesn't guarantee you the #1 pick, but we aren't in contention for the worst record, so....

We could end up 8-10 and still pick 1-3.

Could is nothing to bet on. It is highly unlikely. The team has almost everything it needs, but that #1 option. Tell me how we are getting that #1 stud if not through the draft? Who in the league is A. young enough to grow with this team, and B. talented enough to be considered a #1 on a contender, yet willing to come play in Utah?

I just don't believe that tanking is the end all be all to fixing a franchise that some here do. Hell GS tanked the hell out of it a few years ago and the guy they got would not help us much if any at all. Top 3 pick or not this team will struggle to make the playoffs for the next 2 years. We just don't have the overall talent level to be competitive and that talent can be acquired in more ways than just the draft.

The 2012 draft, and the 2014 draft are very different beasts.

How are going to acquire this superb talent if not for the draft? Any discussion of getting talent must first begin with giving up talent. No one is going to give us a player of that caliber. Once you give up talent, your team is weaker than what it could have been. Through the draft you add to your existing talent base.

Have you seen the list for free agents for the 2014 and 2015 off season? There is NO ONE worth getting that we could actually get. If we don't get lucky this year, we have to hope one of our guys becomes that guy, or be condemned to the 8th seed for the next decade.

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I was more about the development of this team and on that score I've been okay with this season. If not the coach taking us there. I still think Kanter and Favors together is unproven and if paired with Marvin and Burke instead of Jefferson and Tinsley could have worked. But overall I've liked the direction of some of the young guys and believe this can be a playoff team with some additions.
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I'm fully aware that neither of these opinions is popular here.

How can you say you're okay with the development this year, and then say you still think Kanter and Favors is unproven but could work? Kanter and Favors are unproven because they haven't been developed together!! How can you be okay with that?

Yes. I agree that with some additions this team can be a playoff team, but only in the sense that the 12-13' Denver Nuggets were a playoff team. Without that guy who can give that something of unstoppableness to an already solid team, we'll never win the title. If you're not about winning the title, why even care?!?!

 

[gregbroncs]

False.

By a raise of hands, how many people on this board never took math? Losing = more lottery balls. More lottery balls = a higher percentage for landing in the top 3. After the top 3, your team's standing determines your pick. So in both cases losing more gets you a better pick.

The only thing that could be said is that getting the worst record doesn't guarantee you the #1 pick, but we aren't in contention for the worst record, so....

So a better chance is a guarantee? Gotcha English is not your strong suit.


Could is nothing to bet on. It is highly unlikely. The team has almost everything it needs, but that #1 option. Tell me how we are getting that #1 stud if not through the draft? Who in the league is A. young enough to grow with this team, and B. talented enough to be considered a #1 on a contender, yet willing to come play in Utah?
It's all a could. We could be the worst team and still not get the 3 guys everybody wants. Maybe the stud is on the roster and has not shown it yet. Hell maybe he can be had at pick 8 or later like lots of other players.




The 2012 draft, and the 2014 draft are very different beasts. So everybody keeps saying. Does not make it true. It's all a guess.

How are going to acquire this superb talent if not for the draft? Any discussion of getting talent must first begin with giving up talent. No one is going to give us a player of that caliber. Once you give up talent, your team is weaker than what it could have been. Through the draft you add to your existing talent base.We may add that talent no matter where we pick.

Have you seen the list for free agents for the 2014 and 2015 off season? There is NO ONE worth getting that we could actually get. If we don't get lucky this year, we have to hope one of our guys becomes that guy, or be condemned to the 8th seed for the next decade.

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How can you say you're okay with the development this year, and then say you still think Kanter and Favors is unproven but could work? Kanter and Favors are unproven because they haven't been developed together!! How can you be okay with that?

Yes. I agree that with some additions this team can be a playoff team, but only in the sense that the 12-13' Denver Nuggets were a playoff team. Without that guy who can give that something of unstoppableness to an already solid team, we'll never win the title. If you're not about winning the title, why even care?!?!

I'm okay with the talent I've seen from the players. Kanter and Favors being unproven on the court is a coaching thing, and I'm definitely not okay with the way this team is coached. Also these players are very young and still have tons of room to improve. Hell half these guys we are relying on should still be in college.

 

[infection]

Here is what's off: Marvin is to be blamed for ruining the tank. Seriously????WTFFFF?????? Turn your animosity towards the org or the moronic coach. Jesus this debate is so ****ing stupid. Lol lol lol rofl

I have no animosity toward Marvin. My animosity toward the organization is the fact that (if true) they don't see the value in not trying so hard to feel good about finishing above all the tanking teams, as if that's some prize. My animosity with the coach is that he's trying real hard to squeeze out a few wins. Can't fault him with that, but also can't fault myself for disliking something that ultimately hurts the franchise that I'm a fan of. In 10 years, you and I will still be Jazz fans. In 10 years, how indifferent will Corbin be to the Jazz? Bottom line: I don't give a **** what's currently in Corbin's best interest as we as fans are in this for the long haul -- he's in this until he lands his next gig.