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Utah Jazz 5 on 5 Roundtable

SalmonHobo said:
Lebron's a slasher. D Wade's a slasher. Millsap's not a slasher, imo, based on the typical usage of the term.
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I actually think it's a typo. There's no way anyone as knowledgeable as Thorpe would characterize Millsap a slasher. Not sure who he meant, though. Maybe Miles.

There is an interesting takeaway from what he said, however. We're going to have more slashers getting minutes than shooters (and Harris can be factored into that). So it would be stunning if Ty isn't going to retrofit the offense with more pick and roll from the wings. If our wings are Hayward, CJ, Burks, and maybe Sap or AK, we should see an offense that looks a lot different than it has in the past. I'm looking forward to seeing what he does.
 
jazzfan1971 said:
Who are these folks answering these questions? They are terrible.

1 - Trading Deron Williams was the right move: How the hell would we know? We don't know what discussions Deron had with management. We don't know the likelyhood he was likely to bolt. We are guessing in an information vacuum. The best I have to go on, and it's paper thin, is that when someone asked Deron if it was true that he wanted to (something like) play in NY, his answer wasn't yes or no. His answer was to dodge the question by saying the source wasn't credible. To me that indicated that he didn't have long term plans in Utah. (paper thin, like I said, but, when tea leaves are all you have you read tea leaves) Given this opinion of mine that Deron had plans to move on, the Jazz made the correct move. Even if Deron had planned on staying, the last couple months he was here he just looked like he was dogging it to me. Not to mention him helping Sloan out the door. I was ready for him to go. I'm excited about the new guys. I think we'll need 3 more years to judge whether or not this was a good move on the court or not, but, it's got my vote as being a good bet by management given the situation.

Time to say goodbye to AK? Again, it depends. If he's cheap it's not time. If he's expensive it's time. I don't know what his market value is. I don't know if he's willing to 'give back' some of that money by taking less than he's worth. I do know that he's only good for about 30 games a year, the rest of the time he's just a guy limping around with a tweaked back or modeling a suit. I love AK, but, unless he wants to take a Korver like contract it's time for him to move on down the road.

Who should start? Man, I can't believe how wrong those pundits are. It's Jefferson and Favors. Millsap is the 3rd big. Kanter will likely struggle to get more than 12-15 min. But, it's even money that a trade is made. So, until we see the roster on opening day even this question is an unknown.

Burks or Fredette: I can't say. But, how is Millsap a slasher? If I had to bet I'd put my money on Burks he just has a lot more upside with his size, age, and athleticism. I wouldn't bet the house though, maybe a donut.

Brightest future: Yup, it's Utah. On paper it's the Clippers, but, if the Clippers were so loaded how come they couldn't make the playoffs last year? It's the Clippers. If you've been watching the NBA for the last 20+ years you know that bright future and Clippers don't belong in the same sentence. Fool me once shame on you, fool me 20+ times? No thanks. Oh and don't try to sell me that this isn't your father's Clippers. This Clipper team just paid Kyrie Irving to exchange 2 years of Baron Davis for 2 years of Mo Williams. This is still your father's Clippers.
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Nice post.
 
billyshelby said:
I actually think it's a typo. There's no way anyone as knowledgeable as Thorpe would characterize Millsap a slasher. Not sure who he meant, though. Maybe Miles.

There is an interesting takeaway from what he said, however. We're going to have more slashers getting minutes than shooters (and Harris can be factored into that). So it would be stunning if Ty isn't going to retrofit the offense with more pick and roll from the wings. If our wings are Hayward, CJ, Burks, and maybe Sap or AK, we should see an offense that looks a lot different than it has in the past. I'm looking forward to seeing what he does.
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Hayward and Burks can both shoot from mid-range and long-range. The Jazz like wings who can run the baseline and make back-door cuts in general. However, it used to be that the Jazz HAD to do this to get points out of Brewer and Kirilenko at the wings because they were flakey shooters. I think the Jazz are pretty versatile now.
 
Catchall said:
Hayward and Burks can both shoot from mid-range and long-range. The Jazz like wings who can run the baseline and make back-door cuts in general. However, it used to be that the Jazz HAD to do this to get points out of Brewer and Kirilenko at the wings because they were flakey shooters. I think the Jazz are pretty versatile now.
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I don't think anyone considers Burks solid from either mid or long range. His weakness is definitely shooting. Hopefully he'll prove everyone wrong, but he's probably got a learning curve in that department.
 
billyshelby said:
I don't think anyone considers Burks solid from either mid or long range. His weakness is definitely shooting. Hopefully he'll prove everyone wrong, but he's probably got a learning curve in that department.
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According to most of the scouting reports Burks has a very good mid range game (collage wise). From the 8 to 18 foot range he shot a very good percentage. Its when he is behind the arc he struggled. The fact that the collage 3 point line is now considered a mid range shot is were you get people saying that his mid range game might be iffy
 
SalmonHobo said:
Lebron's a slasher. D Wade's a slasher. Millsap's not a slasher, imo, based on the typical usage of the term.
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I wouldn't consider any of those guys slashers. Maybe I'm incorrect, but I always thought slashing (and being a slasher) was something done without the ball?
 
Zerol said:
I don't understand why people keep wanting Hayward to be a 2. He played some PF in college and with some work in he will be an adequate, skilled SF who can shoot and is a threat outside the arc. Burks on the other hand has the potential to be a very good shooting guard in the NBA and CJ can come off the bench for either position.
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Because he can't guard most NBA 3's.
 
billyshelby said:
I actually think it's a typo. There's no way anyone as knowledgeable as Thorpe would characterize Millsap a slasher. Not sure who he meant, though. Maybe Miles.

There is an interesting takeaway from what he said, however. We're going to have more slashers getting minutes than shooters (and Harris can be factored into that). So it would be stunning if Ty isn't going to retrofit the offense with more pick and roll from the wings. If our wings are Hayward, CJ, Burks, and maybe Sap or AK, we should see an offense that looks a lot different than it has in the past. I'm looking forward to seeing what he does.
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If wings are handling the ball on PnRs, then the Jazz HAVE to find a PG that can spread the floor.
 
NUMBERICA said:
If wings are handling the ball on PnRs, then the Jazz HAVE to find a PG that can spread the floor.
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That's ideal, but not necessary. The beauty of well run PnR's is that they turn 10 man games into 4 man games. We never had great shooters, but Deron and Booze ran an incredibly effective PnR. So bringing out Sap and Al to run the same things with wings could work just as effectively. It's all about how players shift to enhance it. Ideally, you have a shooter in the near corner. But we can still run similar back cuts giving the driver an option, the screener an option, and then the screener having options to pass. What makes it work is having enough guys that can actually drive and beat their man. We just might have that in Hayward, Miles, and Burks. AK would even be good in that department. I would love to see that type of attacking offense.
 
billyshelby said:
That's ideal, but not necessary. The beauty of well run PnR's is that they turn 10 man games into 4 man games. We never had great shooters, but Deron and Booze ran an incredibly effective PnR. So bringing out Sap and Al to run the same things with wings could work just as effectively. It's all about how players shift to enhance it. Ideally, you have a shooter in the near corner. But we can still run similar back cuts giving the driver an option, the screener an option, and then the screener having options to pass. What makes it work is having enough guys that can actually drive and beat their man. We just might have that in Hayward, Miles, and Burks. AK would even be good in that department. I would love to see that type of attacking offense.
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That's the other problem, Millsap isn't great at setting picks and Jefferson is nothing short of awful at PnR (sets bad screens, rolls late, usually won't even finish a roll to the basket).
 
NUMBERICA said:
Who's obsessed? And what don't you get? The 22.3 PPG on good percentages (49/36/83), the 4.5 APG, that he was in the same class as Griffin in adjusted +/- (.8 less than Griffin, and 5 better than the next best player), that he has no weakness to his game, he has a very nice physical profile (6' 3.5" is perfectly fine when you have a 6' 9" wingspan and are very athletic) and that he's only 22 years old?

I don't get what people aren't obsessed with either. Wait...
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i agree, i dont know his stats but gordon is one of the guys who make difficult things seem easy to do, he is a very fluid guy and perfect scorer. Clippers have two franchise players in 2 very important spots. But we have a group of very good guys which arent franchise players yet.

In this case i think clippers is like lakers, have a kobe and shaq, and utah is like detroit with 5 allstar level players but none of them are kobe or shaq.

Who is better? that depends more on clippers who else they can team gordon and blake up with. Probably we arent gonna have another deron williams caliber player with this core, but if we find a good pg instead of harris, we can be contender for many years.
 
Cyrone Torbin said:
I wouldn't consider any of those guys slashers. Maybe I'm incorrect, but I always thought slashing (and being a slasher) was something done without the ball?
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Slashers are typically physical wing players who 'slash' to the hoop with the ball, or are fed the ball, with the intent to finish inside. Think Corey Magette, a young Tmac or Tyreke Evans. Lebron could be called a slasher. Shandon Anderson was considered a slasher.
 
orangello said:
Big hands are good for receiving the ball, just not getting rid of it. (As in shooting)
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I dont know how Leonard is going to do, but when you say players with large hands cant shoot; I would disagree. Only because of a guy named MICHAEL JORDAN. I dont know if you have heard of him. But he is the Greatest basketball player to ever play, known for his verticle jumping ability, shooting accuracy and LARGE HANDS.
 
I think the big hands thing is kind of an excuse. Yes, it may be harder to shoot with large hands, but I'm sure there are many people with huge hands who shoot just fine.

https://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Scotty-Hopson-1323/

Scotty Hopson has longer hands than Kahwi Leonard according to DX hand measurments (https://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pr...=All&sort2=DESC&draft=&pos=&source=All&sort=8). They didn't measure width for some reason, but his hands are longer. He is considered a pretty good shooter.
 
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