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Utah Jazz offseason ranked #4 by NBA.com

relative to last year, chicago has had a MUCH better offseason than the jazz. the bulls barely made the playoffs last season and now are looking like a top 4 seed for sure, maybe even higher. they picked up probably 10+ wins this offseason.

the jazz did a good job pulling a rabbit out of a hat, but they didn't get better. they'll be lucky to match last year's 53 wins. if they surpass it, it won't be by much.
 
theNBAnerd said:
relative to last year, chicago has had a MUCH better offseason than the jazz. the bulls barely made the playoffs last season and now are looking like a top 4 seed for sure, maybe even higher. they picked up probably 10+ wins this offseason.

the jazz did a good job pulling a rabbit out of a hat, but they didn't get better. they'll be lucky to match last year's 53 wins. if they surpass it, it won't be by much.
Click to expand...

Why don't you think the Jazz got better?
 
theNBAnerd said:
relative to last year, chicago has had a MUCH better offseason than the jazz. the bulls barely made the playoffs last season and now are looking like a top 4 seed for sure, maybe even higher. they picked up probably 10+ wins this offseason.

the jazz did a good job pulling a rabbit out of a hat, but they didn't get better. they'll be lucky to match last year's 53 wins. if they surpass it, it won't be by much.
Click to expand...

agreed with you until your statement about the jazz being better. They are better, marginally better, but still better. The locker room, and players that want too win far surpass the dopes that left. This team looks to have desire which boozer certainly lacked.
 
This is a ranking for just the offseason moves as the article clearly claims. I am not sure what everyone is whining about. Jazz merely compensated for their losses, but did a good job of that nevertheless. #4 sounds right.
 
Bulls are rightfully ranked ahead of Jazz. They did lose Hinrich and a first rounder, but Brewer, Watson, and Korver more than make up for that. The biggest gain was Boozer. Any time you add a 20-10 guy like that, it's huge. We also added one, but we lost one as well. Bulls got an all star quality player without giving anything up. They also have very good back-up PG in Watson (someone I wish we had instead of scrub Price), and their 2/3 rotation is very decent with Deng/Brewer/Korver. So, definitely Bulls had a good off-season. But ... they were only 500 team before. It remains to be seen if what they have done this summer even pushes them into 50 win territory. Utah, on the other hand, was already at 53 before our improvements.

Hence, I would agree with 4th rankings. Yes, we lost Booz, but we are now in position to have one of the most athletic and skilled starting front courts in NBA with Jefferson, Millsap, and AK. This was not possible before, because Booz and Millsap cannot play any other position than PF. So, we ended up in a situation where Paul's talents were not optimally utilized. Now we will be able to leverage it full with Paul starting and playing 35 minutes a game. And as a starter Paul is 18 and 11 guy, maybe even better now. That's a huge improvement from last year, where soft Okur had to start with soft Boozer. Now Memo can come off the bench, where he is better suited - as one of the best 6th man in the League. Raja is also a huge addition. Matthews was solid, but Raja is a much better defender and much better 3 point shooter. Last year, when we wanted great 3 point shooting, we had to significantly sacrifice defensively with Korver. Now, with Raja we can have a great 3 point shooter (career even better than Korver) AND have elite defense at the same time. That's a huge upgrade of SG position, in spite of Wes and Korver losses. Plus having a rookie who just had arguably the best summer League of everyone drafted doesn't hurt either.

So, we did not upgrade as much as Bulls did, but I think we did upgrade significantly, and were ahead of them to begin with. 55 wins is very reasonable expectation this year in my view. We might not beat the Lakers, but outside of them, we are as talented as any other team in the West.
 
Why doesn't anyone in this world but me realize that Boozer was a 20 point a night guy because he was in a system that basically serves up points to it's PF's on a silver platter? He'll lose atleast 4-5 points a night anywhere else in the NBA (especially with a shoot first, not pass first like he's used to, PG like Rose), book it!

And why doesn't anyone but me realize that Boozer should have been a 25+ point guy a night if he played with the same drive that he would show in spurts 1 out of every 6 nights when he would be driving to the hoop, drawing contact, and finishing.... instead he was one of the most, if not thee most, blocked player in the NBA (For each, "AND ONE!!!" there was a "GET THAT **** OUTTA HERE!!!" from the guy sending his junk up to the nose-bleeds).

Plus, how am I the only one who thinks that he was a 10 rebound a night guy only because he would call off teammates atleast once or twice a night when going for rebounds to pad stats? This means he's closer to an 8 rebound a night guy... Kool-Aid or not, I know the Jazz and I watched Boozer. He was given every opportunity to be an all-star here and at times he took that opportunity, but don't look for him to repeat that 20 and 10 statline for Chicago. He'll be a 15 and 8 guy tops, and that's IF he doesn't sit from PMS cramps every other night.

Miami 1st best off-season. Jazz 2nd. LA 3rd. Bulls 4th.
 
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I couldn't disagree with NBA Nerd more. I think the Jazz added 3 or 4 wins to their total for next year. I feel this way for 2 reasons. First of all, I think Jefferson is a great replacement for Boozer and Raja adds a necessary element to this team. However, the biggest reason I expect improvement is what these moves do for Utah in the locker room.

Just about anybody who has played organized sports past Jr. Jazz and Pee-Wee football level understand just how dangerous a close-knit team with a common goal can be. In all honesty, I don't think many players on the Jazz liked Boozer and his "me first" antics. I especially have a hunch that Deron loathed the guy. The additions of Jefferson and Bell are going to transform the Jazz locker room from top to bottom and it will spill over onto the court as well.

Agree with me, disagree with, it really doesn't matter. We'll all get to see it first hand as the season progresses.
 
David Stern said:
Why don't you think the Jazz got better?
Click to expand...

it's just blatant homerism to think they got better on paper. this was the offseason of "treading water." lose boozer, replace him with a less complete player. lose matthews, replace him with a player who does some things a little better, but is 33 years old and coming off an injury. lose korver, replace him with a guy who can't hold a candle to korver's outside shot and defends even worse. didn't truly address the length problem, didn't address the backup point guard situation, we have no idea what memo looks like post-injury... i'm reading that paragraph and thinking that the best-case scenario is staying about the same.

any improvement that the jazz make this year will be based on intangibles, because on paper you can't convince me that they did anything to get BETTER. so what are the intangibles?
** chemistry -- if you really believe that boozer and DW secretly hated each other and now deron finally has a teammate with whom he can go to sunday brunch and the farmer's market in al jefferson, then maybe the jazz improve. i personally don't buy it, mostly because i think their chemistry looked more than fine last season.
** fit -- the argument that jefferson is a better fit because, even though he is less complete offensively, he's a true enough low post presence that he can play 5 and clear the way for millsap. i'd feel better about this argument, though, if millsap and jefferson didn't have some of the same weaknesses. neither can consistently be the high-post decision maker and neither guy has demonstrated any kind of passing ability out of the post.
** internal improvement -- will CJ take that next step we've been waiting on for the last few seasons? will role re-definition rejuvenate AK as o'connor has suggested? will millsap surprise us and come to camp with a few extra offensive tools? will price suddently look like a backup point guard?

best bets in that paragraph are CJ and AK, who i think will be the determining factors as to whether the jazz have a treading-water year or a year that feels like we're moving closer to realization of the dream.
 
theNBAnerd said:
it's just blatant homerism to think they got better on paper. this was the offseason of "treading water." lose boozer, replace him with a less complete player. lose matthews, replace him with a player who does some things a little better, but is 33 years old and coming off an injury. lose korver, replace him with a guy who can't hold a candle to korver's outside shot and defends even worse. didn't truly address the length problem, didn't address the backup point guard situation, we have no idea what memo looks like post-injury... i'm reading that paragraph and thinking that the best-case scenario is staying about the same.

any improvement that the jazz make this year will be based on intangibles, because on paper you can't convince me that they did anything to get BETTER. so what are the intangibles?
** chemistry -- if you really believe that boozer and DW secretly hated each other and now deron finally has a teammate with whom he can go to sunday brunch and the farmer's market in al jefferson, then maybe the jazz improve. i personally don't buy it, mostly because i think their chemistry looked more than fine last season.
** fit -- the argument that jefferson is a better fit because, even though he is less complete offensively, he's a true enough low post presence that he can play 5 and clear the way for millsap. i'd feel better about this argument, though, if millsap and jefferson didn't have some of the same weaknesses. neither can consistently be the high-post decision maker and neither guy has demonstrated any kind of passing ability out of the post.
** internal improvement -- will CJ take that next step we've been waiting on for the last few seasons? will role re-definition rejuvenate AK as o'connor has suggested? will millsap surprise us and come to camp with a few extra offensive tools? will price suddently look like a backup point guard?

best bets in that paragraph are CJ and AK, who i think will be the determining factors as to whether the jazz have a treading-water year or a year that feels like we're moving closer to realization of the dream.
Click to expand...

I understand your points but let me say this.

1) AJ was a 20-10 guy on a crappy team with poor point guard. It's not hard to imagine that he could be a 24/11 guy here and therefore be better than booze. it's not also blatant homerism to believe that given his size advantage and a change in scenery, he could also be a better and more interested defender.
2) I know we didn't truly address length in the form of a center (what were our options you would have proposed?) but AJ has 1.5 inches in standing reach on Booze and 3 inches in max vert reach. Hayward also has 3.5 inches in max vert reach on Korver. Their additions, along with Evans made us a little bit longer and more athletic imo. Obviously, we still need someone who can contend with Gasol and/or Bynum down low and that's why my sig is what it is.

I see us taking a slight step back to around 50 wins because of chemistry issues but am holding out hope that the following year, with Miles and Hayward more seasoned, Jefferson more acclimated to our offense, and Kobe another year older, we could truly do some damage.
 
chawx said:
Why doesn't anyone in this world but me realize that Boozer was a 20 point a night guy because he was in a system that basically serves up points to it's PF's on a silver platter? He'll lose atleast 4-5 points a night anywhere else in the NBA (especially with a shoot first, not pass first like he's used to, PG like Rose), book it!

And why doesn't anyone but me realize that Boozer should have been a 25+ point guy a night if he played with the same drive that he would show in spurts 1 out of every 6 nights when he would be driving to the hoop, drawing contact, and finishing.... instead he was one of the most, if not thee most, blocked player in the NBA (For each, "AND ONE!!!" there was a "GET THAT SH*T OUTTA HERE!!!" from the guy sending his junk up to the nose-bleeds).

Plus, how am I the only one who thinks that he was a 10 rebound a night guy only because he would call off teammates atleast once or twice a night when going for rebounds to pad stats? This means he's closer to an 8 rebound a night guy... Kool-Aid or not, I know the Jazz and I watched Boozer. He was given every opportunity to be an all-star here and at times he took that opportunity, but don't look for him to repeat that 20 and 10 statline for Chicago. He'll be a 15 and 8 guy tops, and that's IF he doesn't sit from PMS cramps every other night.

Miami 1st best off-season. Jazz 2nd. LA 3rd. Bulls 4th.
Click to expand...

Wanna make love?
 
First of all, IMO, Jefferson is not an upgrade to Loozer. Jefferson is an upgrade to Okur. Millsap should be playing the bulk of the minutes at the 4, and is a huge improvement over Loozer.

To say that Loozer is a complete player is laughable at best! He's half a complete player who hasn't got a CLUE how, nor a shred of desire, to play defense. Millsap's a better rebounder, a better outside shooter, has under-rated post moves, and actually gives a crap enough to play defense. He heart and desire alone make him an upgrade.

"Carlos, Millsap just dropped 30 on New Jersey. What do you think?"

"I think I'm Carlos Freakin Boozer, and I'm going to get paid!"

The only thing basketball-wise Loozer has that Millsap doesn't is a left hand equal to his right at the rim. Big whoopty-freakin-do. I'm so glad that A-hole is gone I can't stand it.

And AJ is a HUGE upgrade to Okur at the 5, and Okur's been playing pretty well there lately.

Same at the 1
(Arguably) Same at the 2
Same at the 3
Better at the 4
Way better at the 5.

Yea. I'd say we got a ton better.. addition by subtraction at the 4, plus addition by addition at the 5.
 
JohnnyClutch said:
First of all, IMO, Jefferson is not an upgrade to Loozer. Jefferson is an upgrade to Okur. Millsap should be playing the bulk of the minutes at the 4, and is a huge improvement over Loozer.

To say that Loozer is a complete player is laughable at best! He's half a complete player who hasn't got a CLUE how, nor a shred of desire, to play defense. Millsap's a better rebounder, a better outside shooter, has under-rated post moves, and actually gives a crap enough to play defense. He heart and desire alone make him an upgrade.

"Carlos, Millsap just dropped 30 on New Jersey. What do you think?"

"I think I'm Carlos Freakin Boozer, and I'm going to get paid!"

The only thing basketball-wise Loozer has that Millsap doesn't is a left hand equal to his right at the rim. Big whoopty-freakin-do. I'm so glad that A-hole is gone I can't stand it.

And AJ is a HUGE upgrade to Okur at the 5, and Okur's been playing pretty well there lately.

Same at the 1
(Arguably) Same at the 2
Same at the 3
Better at the 4
Way better at the 5.

Yea. I'd say we got a ton better.. addition by subtraction at the 4, plus addition by addition at the 5.
Click to expand...

No way Sap has a better midrange jumper than Boozer. Boozer is probably the most complete offensive PF besides Bosh.
 
Mambo said:
When he is playing against Forwards that are under 6`8
Click to expand...

Gasol and Dirk are both better offensive PF too, I forgot to add those, but Boozer is still a top 5 offensive PF. Millsap, while I love him, isnt as good.
 
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