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Utah Jazz Survivor ROUND 12

Which Jazz player would you vote off in Round 12?

  • Total voters
    54
  • Poll closed .
nightmare3983 said:
Don't discount Hayward's toughness and ability to get under opponents' skins. See the West Willy and Aaron Afflalo elbow for reference.
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And he just walked away from West instead of beating the **** out of him. I doubt Burks would have let it go that way.
 
if burks reaches his absolute ceiling, i mean 100% of his best-case scenario, then yeah, he's untouchable.

but if he becomes anything less than 100% of that, then he's just another high-scoring wing player, which is about the easiest thing to find in the NBA. so many teams have overreacted to a player showing a flurry of scoring ability (brandon jennings, flip murray, tmac) only to find out that the guy didn't actually make their team any better. people need to realize that at this point, burks hasn't proven he's more than that. could be, and the possibilities give me goosebumps. but so far, he's just a young kid who scores at a great per-minute rate and gets to the line.

but i'm not gonna pretend like this is an easy decision. we're in the top 5 now, which means whoever you vote off, it's going to hurt a little. i hope we keep burks and give him every chance at realizing that star potential. in the meantime, i'm going to make sure that MY top three are the three guys who have both a future AND a bit more of a resumé. paul, gordon and derrick are my last three to go. sorry, alec.
 
Yeah scoring wings are way super crazy easy to find. Just look at the Jazz. In franchise history they've had:

____________

(list is in alphabetical order, not order of preference)
 
AKMVP said:
Why would anybody vote Burks over Hayward is beyond understanding. To me he has way more potential then Hayward...and he has way more nastiness in his game, call it whatever you like, big balls, heart, winner's mentality, anything...
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This. I see more potential in burks than hayward and for me his about even with favors. Burks will be the next dwayn wade. Hayward, more like a chris mullen (which isnt a bad thing) or more athletic hornacek...... although i could see a small chance that he could end up at a larry bird like level, I see burks as having a very good chance of being at a dwayne wade level.
 
I voted Alec Burks right here. However by the end of the year I hope to place Burks and Kanter on the same pedestal as Favors and Hayward.
 
AKMVP said:
And he just walked away from West instead of beating the **** out of him. I doubt Burks would have let it go that way.
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Hayward kept his cool and went on to score 21 points after the West Willy in a game the Jazz really needed to win in their playoff push. There are times to not be pushed around and there are times to be smart and help your team.
 
If hayward had the confidence of burks then i think i would believe in hayward more, but he seems almost scared to shoot alot of the times..... I have seen him drive to the hoop and have a chance to finish or go to the line and end up passing the ball off way too much.

Also his play in the playoffs was atrocious and has me a little worried.
 
Stoked said:
I voted Alec Burks right here. However by the end of the year I hope to place Burks and Kanter on the same pedestal as Favors and Hayward.
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orangello said:
Same, but that is next year's game, not today's.
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all these things are true.

AKMVP said:
And he just walked away from West instead of beating the **** out of him. I doubt Burks would have let it go that way.
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nightmare3983 said:
Hayward kept his cool and went on to score 21 points after the West Willy in a game the Jazz really needed to win in their playoff push. There are times to not be pushed around and there are times to be smart and help your team.
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i have it on pretty good authority that hayward knew exactly what he was doing with west. probably had no way of knowing that THAT would be the reaction, but he was messing with west all game long.
 
The next Dwayne Wade.. next Chris Mullin, Favors (maybe next Karl Malone), Millsap 6th man.. Kanter - next Wladimir Klitschko..

Future may be bright here in Utah..
 
nightmare3983 said:
Hayward kept his cool and went on to score 21 points after the West Willy in a game the Jazz really needed to win in their playoff push. There are times to not be pushed around and there are times to be smart and help your team.
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You guys are such hypocrites here. When Nowitzki slapped ball out of Favors hands and Watson stood up for him everyone here was screaming that Favors is soft and needed to retaliate. While this little punk West sticks finger in Haywards ear ( way worse then slapping ball out of hands ) and you think it is ok to walk away from it???
 
AKMVP said:
You guys are such hypocrites here. When Nowitzki slapped ball out of Favors hands and Watson stood up for him everyone here was screaming that Favors is soft and needed to retaliate. While this little punk West sticks finger in Haywards ear ( way worse then slapping ball out of hands ) and you think it is ok to walk away from it???
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I'm not the right one to quote for this post. I wasn't even on Jazzfanz until May.
 
UGLI baby said:
Yeah scoring wings are way super crazy easy to find. Just look at the Jazz. In franchise history they've had:

____________

(list is in alphabetical order, not order of preference)
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c'mon, you know that scoring wings are easy to find than versatile power forwards with a 21+ PER. and anyway, what i'm talking about are wing players who score well but don't help their team much.

i did a query for post-3 point era wing players who had a rotation spot (>/= 20 mpg) and had 15 pp36 or greater but a WS of 5 or fewer on a season-long basis. some of them were incredible scorers: marc aguirre 1986, jim jackson 1995, eddie johnson 1993, chris mullin 1993, dell curry 1994, mitch ritchmond 1992... melo's on the list a number of times, so is vince carter and so is tmac. JR smith, don't-call-me-wes matthews, brandon roy. dunleavy, finley... i'm just giving you the most recognizable names, skipping a few dozen guys like bob sura or keith bogans. my point here is that burks could get pretty damn good on an individual level and still not make the jazz much better. history is full of examples of score-first wings that have little affect on the win total.

then i did a query for players at any position in the same era who has a PER of plus-20, at least 16 points, shooting percentage of at least .490, at least 1 steal per game, at least 8 rebounds per game. about 3-6 guys do it per year, here are some of the most recent. see if you can spot the duds in this group: dwight howard, lebron james, chris paul, dwyane wade, russell westbrook, manu ginobili, kobe bryant, carol butler (ok), allen iverson, gilbert arenas, baron davis, shawn marion.

short version: paul has the skill set of an elite player. burks (so far) has the skill set of a fairly dime-a-dozen player. i hope that changes and that burks proves himself beyond just an ability to score. as of right now, paul is more valuable.
 
theNBAnerd said:
c'mon, you know that scoring wings are easy to find than versatile power forwards with a 21+ PER. and anyway, what i'm talking about are wing players who score well but don't help their team much.

i did a query for post-3 point era wing players who had a rotation spot (>/= 20 mpg) and had 15 pp36 or greater but a WS of 5 or fewer on a season-long basis. some of them were incredible scorers: marc aguirre 1986, jim jackson 1995, eddie johnson 1993, chris mullin 1993, dell curry 1994, mitch ritchmond 1992... melo's on the list a number of times, so is vince carter and so is tmac. JR smith, don't-call-me-wes matthews, brandon roy. dunleavy, finley... i'm just giving you the most recognizable names, skipping a few dozen guys like bob sura or keith bogans. my point here is that burks could get pretty damn good on an individual level and still not make the jazz much better. history is full of examples of score-first wings that have little affect on the win total.

then i did a query for players at any position in the same era who has a PER of plus-20, at least 16 points, shooting percentage of at least .490, at least 1 steal per game, at least 8 rebounds per game. about 3-6 guys do it per year, here are some of the most recent. see if you can spot the duds in this group: dwight howard, lebron james, chris paul, dwyane wade, russell westbrook, manu ginobili, kobe bryant, carol butler (ok), allen iverson, gilbert arenas, baron davis, shawn marion.

short version: paul has the skill set of an elite player. burks (so far) has the skill set of a fairly dime-a-dozen player. i hope that changes and that burks proves himself beyond just an ability to score. as of right now, paul is more valuable.
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While i agree with you saying that scoring wings are easier to find than bigs.... like ugli said: the JAZZ have never been able to find one.... yet they have had malone, boozer, jefferson, millsap, memo and possibly favors and kanter all pretty recently.
Again name all the big time scoring wings that the jazz have had.
 
One side note in Burks favor, he does get to the line at a very high rate. With more playing time I would assume that he might even get to the line at an elite level. This is something that the Jazz sorely need.
 
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