Utah Jazz Survivor ROUND 12

[theNBAnerd]

put another way... 34 times in the history of the utah jazz, players have reached the per-36 levels of alec this year in points, rebounds, assists and steals. in fact, paul hit those levels himself twice.

guess how many times a player has matched the per-36 levels of paul in those same categories. if you guessed zero times, you're correct.

in fact, if we widen the search to include all franchises, it has still only happened 5 times in the post-3 point era of the entire NBA: david robsinson in 1992, shawn kemp in 1994, hakeen olaujwon in 1990, charles barkley in 1986, and paul in 2012. pretty decent company.

 

[theNBAnerd]

One side note in Burks favor, he does get to the line at a very high rate. With more playing time I would assume that he might even get to the line at an elite level. This is something that the Jazz sorely need.

he's close to "elite" already. since i'm in query mode, i just looked it up. he was #51 last year in FTA/36. #31 among players who played at least 900 minutes, and if we narrow THAT list down to guards only then its:

harden
westbrook
wade
kobe
lou williams
derrick rose
stuckey
dwill
john wall
jeremy lin
alec

 

[Dr. Jones]

I'm not reading the thread. There can't possibly be good justification for the retarded results of the poll.

 

[CitizenofCapua]

Same reason that why you vote for Kanter over Millsap. Yeah got too much potential but how much he will show of that talent? At least Hayward has proven himself at some point. BTW Hi to all Jazzfanz...

 

[colton]

put another way... 34 times in the history of the utah jazz, players have reached the per-36 levels of alec this year in points, rebounds, assists and steals. in fact, paul hit those levels himself twice.

And how many times was it done by a rookie?

Don't get me wrong--I'll probably vote off Burks before Millsap myself. But that didn't seem like a fair comparison.

 

[colton]

Feeling high on Burks today... sorry Gordon, I voted for you.

 

[UGLI baby]

Feeling high on Burks today.

Colton's partying harder than me?!

Never thought I'd see the day.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Why would anybody vote Burks over Hayward is beyond understanding. To me he has way more potential then Hayward...and he has way more nastiness in his game, call it whatever you like, big balls, heart, winner's mentality, anything...

Did you never follow the 2010 NCAA tournament? How did Burks do in that tourney again..?? Oh wait, his team didn't even qualify. Until you actually have justification for being able to say that Burks has a "winner's mentality", or "big-balls" or heart, then don't make a comparison to a player that nearly scored the biggest upset in NCAA history. Or to a player that single-handedly led a team to beat the Lakers, including shutting down Kobe on his last possession. Its funny because you make this point, despite there being MUCH more proof that Hayward is more of a winner than Burks. I think both have equal potential, personally. Burks's propensity to draw fouls is the only thing that could give him an edge a few years down the line, along with his good touch around the hoop

 

[fishonjazz]

And how many times was it done by a rookie?

Don't get me wrong--I'll probably vote off Burks before Millsap myself. But that didn't seem like a fair comparison.

I was thinking the same thing..... Dont compare a rookie with no training camp, pre-season, less practice time due to condensed schedule, and no love from the head coach, to all other players. Not really a fair comparison.
Again i ask the question since nerd said how easy scoring wings are to find: Who are the high scoring wings in JAZZ history? Pete maravich. I think thats it.
So in my opinion, having a kobe, jordan, wade type of player might be more rare for the jazz than having an effecient high scoring big man.

 

[fishonjazz]

Did you never follow the 2010 NCAA tournament? How did Burks do in that tourney again..?? Oh wait, his team didn't even qualify. Until you actually have justification for being able to say that Burks has a "winner's mentality", or "big-balls" or heart, then don't make a comparison to a player that nearly scored the biggest upset in NCAA history. Or to a player that single-handedly led a team to beat the Lakers, including shutting down Kobe on his last possession. Its funny because you make this point, despite there being MUCH more proof that Hayward is more of a winner than Burks. I think both have equal potential, personally. Burks's propensity to draw fouls is the only thing that could give him an edge a few years down the line, along with his good touch around the hoop

Burks almost single handedly beat the lakers on the road just last year. I think he had like 10 pts in the fourth quarter. Its true that there is not alot of evidence to suggest that burks will be anything in this league because he had a coach that player roger braille ahead of him, but i just get a gut feeling watching him on the court that he will be special. Of course a gut feeling doesn't mean anything, but i see hayward looking tentative and nervous alot of the time he is on the floor and i have never seen burks with fear in his body language. He looks like he thinks he is the best player in the league evertime he steps on court.
Of course that kind of attitude could end up being negative if he cant back it up... i think he can it will back it up however

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Came to this discussion, here are some thoughts.

I though somebody was comparing Burks with Wade. Hayward to me is poor man's Harpring with better passing but worst rebounding skills.

are you kidding me!!! Matt Harpring! There games are nothing alike, but I've come to expect idiot remarks like this from an ignoramus like you!!!!

And he just walked away from West instead of beating the **** out of him. I doubt Burks would have let it go that way.

again not sure why I respond to you sometimes

if burks reaches his absolute ceiling, i mean 100% of his best-case scenario, then yeah, he's untouchable.

but if he becomes anything less than 100% of that, then he's just another high-scoring wing player, which is about the easiest thing to find in the NBA. so many teams have overreacted to a player showing a flurry of scoring ability (brandon jennings, flip murray, tmac) only to find out that the guy didn't actually make their team any better. people need to realize that at this point, burks hasn't proven he's more than that. could be, and the possibilities give me goosebumps. but so far, he's just a young kid who scores at a great per-minute rate and gets to the line.

but i'm not gonna pretend like this is an easy decision. we're in the top 5 now, which means whoever you vote off, it's going to hurt a little. i hope we keep burks and give him every chance at realizing that star potential. in the meantime, i'm going to make sure that MY top three are the three guys who have both a future AND a bit more of a resumé. paul, gordon and derrick are my last three to go. sorry, alec.

wow you wrote something I completely agree with. Honestly I can count on my one hand how many games Burks helped us win. Sure he does some things well, like getting to the line and the hoop, it was the stupid things he did that kept him from getting more minutes bad shot selection inconsistent shot and his lack of ability to pass the ball and make plays for others. I hope this was just a case of him being a rookie, but we shall see. Until he shows he belongs I have to vote him off over Millsap.

Favors is the only player that semi showed up. You hurt yourself with that one.

bam

BAM!!!!. Nothing more to say here.

This. I see more potential in burks than hayward and for me his about even with favors. Burks will be the next dwayn wade. Hayward, more like a chris mullen (which isnt a bad thing) or more athletic hornacek...... although i could see a small chance that he could end up at a larry bird like level, I see burks as having a very good chance of being at a dwayne wade level.

again what is with the horrendous comparisons. Chris Mullins really!!! All CM ever did was shoot. He was a one dimensional player who did one thing well, and that was shooting. Hayward on the other hand does everything well, can shoot, pass, set up teammates, defend, getting to the line, blocking shots. I'm not going to say he will be even close to Bird status, but like Bird he does so much and has some of the same winning intangibles. I'm not here to bash Burks, but his rookie campaign isn't even on the level Hayward showed in his rookie year. Please explain why his upside is better then Haywards, and I hope your answer isn't because Hayward didn't attack West Willy.

Hayward kept his cool and went on to score 21 points after the West Willy in a game the Jazz really needed to win in their playoff push. There are times to not be pushed around and there are times to be smart and help your team.

Agree. Why does a player need to be a hot head to be great. Hayward is every bit the competitor as anyone on this team

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

Burks almost single handedly beat the lakers on the road just last year. I think he had like 10 pts in the fourth quarter. Its true that there is not alot of evidence to suggest that burks will be anything in this league because he had a coach that player roger braille ahead of him, but i just get a gut feeling watching him on the court that he will be special. Of course a gut feeling doesn't mean anything, but i see hayward looking tentative and nervous alot of the time he is on the floor and i have never seen burks with fear in his body language. He looks like he thinks he is the best player in the league evertime he steps on court.
Of course that kind of attitude could end up being negative if he cant back it up... i think he can it will back it up however

You mean the game where Kanter destroyed LA's entire front court. This is one of the few games Burks excelled, but doesn't come even close to what Hayward did to the Lakers in his rookie season. For 4 quarters he put the team on his back, and shut the door on Kobe to win it for the jazz. As for Rojer Braille playing over Bell that was just the first half of the year. How quickly you forget he played over Hayward as well in his rookie season as well along with CJ as well and passed over them. By leaps and bounds.

 

[nightmare3983]

I would quote part of your post thee jazz fan but it's long and I'm on my phone. Anyway, I think Burks has great passing ability. He just needs to use it more. He made plenty of very nice passes. Going forward though, he needs to average more than 0.9 apg.

 

[UGLI baby]

You mean the game where Kanter destroyed LA's entire front court. This is one of the few games Burks excelled, but doesn't come even close to what Hayward did to the Lakers in his rookie season. For 4 quarters he put the team on his back, and shut the door on Kobe to win it for the jazz.

Thee's things.

Probly not the best game to bring up, Nerd.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Burks almost single handedly beat the lakers on the road just last year.

Nope, certainly not single-handedly. Late buckets by Harris, and-one by Millsap. Burks was the player of the quarter, but it most-deinitely wasn't a single-handed affair. Nor did he play a huge role in setting up baskets that other players scored, or drawing fouls/scoring in the last possessions of the game. Burks has never been in that environment. He'd probably thrive in it though, we just haven't seen it yet


EDIT: Thanks Thee, and Gli.

 

[Stifle Tower]

This came down to Burks and Millsap. Largely out of appreciation for Millsap's contributions to the team and his consistent year-to-year improvement, I voted for Burks.

Agree.

 

[Hotdog]

Here's what we know.

Hayward

Great defender. Much better defender than anyone expected. Excellent team player. Passes the ball very well. Has great handles. Can use left or right hand. Has great lateral quickness on defense. Not so much on offense. Can drive to the hoop efficiently, but doesn't blow you away with his speed on that side of it. Struggles with decision making once at the hoop. He has the skill to finish, but either plays scared at that point, or is being too unselfish. Shows flashes of greatness shooting, but at other times, just seems to flat out choke.

My analysis of Hayward: I want him on my team because of all the skills he has. But I'm a little concerned about his ability to close. Or be dominate offensively. I would still project him to be an all- star at some point.

Here's what we know about Burks.

Excellent ability to get to the line, and has a knack for it. Nice handles. Has strong ability to get to hoop and finish. Excellent at being creative in how he finishes at the rim. Doesn't show any fear taking it to the hoop. Pretty good shooter with a nice stroke. Still needs to work on consistency. Very athletic. Pretty much a terrible defender at this point. Plays to close, and over plays on the defensive end. Not a great passer, or willing passer, but not terrible either. Plays with a lot of confidence.

My analysis of Burks: I want him on my team. Shows immense potential offensively. Leaves something to be desired on the defensive end, but has potential to be a good defender. He appears to be a closer type and an offensive beast in the making.

If I had to choose between the two, its a tough call. Hayward is the safer bet. And I like what he is all about. But I am concerned with his confidence and abilities on the offensive end. Not so concerned that I don't like his game, but in respect to him being "the guy" to finish off a team. Burks on the other hand, I think he could be a great player in that aspect. And I look around at the NBA landscape and what it takes to win championship, and it almost always comes down to having an alpha dog offensive player. Burks to me, shows much more promise than Hayward in that area.

Burks is more risky, he might not be that guy, but it's a chance I'd be willing to take. I know what I got with Hayward I believe. I like it, but I don't think he's going to be an alpha dog. I'll go with Burks. It may not turn out to be the right answer, but I could live with the decision.

Good news is, we have them both, the future looks bright. They also compliment each other well. We need them both to become great players. Hayward can be our ace every other area, and Burks can be our ace closing the games and scoring.

 

[Hotdog]

Hayward and Burks is kind of like a poor man's version of the Jordan, Pippen combo.

 

[BYE]

Burks shot 9/48 inside 10 feet of the basket excluding at the rim = 19%.
Burks was rated 54 out of 61 out of shooting guards in assist ratio according to Holinger.

He needs to improve in two main areas:
1. Basketball IQ (seeing the court/passing the ball/shot selection).
2. Strength and effort on defense (not able to get thrown around by stronger guards); (he looks like he's on his way here).

I hope the rumors that have been floating around are true and Burks is going to turn some heads this year, but we'll see.

 

[theNBAnerd]

You mean the game where Kanter destroyed LA's entire front court. This is one of the few games Burks excelled, but doesn't come even close to what Hayward did to the Lakers in his rookie season. For 4 quarters he put the team on his back, and shut the door on Kobe to win it for the jazz. As for Rojer Braille playing over Bell that was just the first half of the year. How quickly you forget he played over Hayward as well in his rookie season as well along with CJ as well and passed over them. By leaps and bounds.

Thee's things.

Probly not the best game to bring up, Nerd.

huh? i think you have the wrong nerd this time, that wasn't me.