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Utah's long journey to relevance

I love Hayward & think he would make a great #2 on a championship caliber team, but we will never win a title without a true #1. Losing Hayward for nothing is a risk this franchise can't afford to take & the only way we're getting that missing star player is thru the draft.

If Boston would trade BKN's 1st rd pick for Hayward, I think we have to seriously consider it. It's unfortunate, but due to all of the injuries, this season has somewhat forced our hand.
 
I think the Jazz would have to blow expectations out of the water next season for Hayward to stay. If I were him I'd leave for a team where the vision of success wasn't so vague.
 
Favors has my respect. I think he's the Jazz' best player. Wouldn't trade him. I think Hayward needs to be dealt. No way should Utah pay him 5/$150M. And that's the only leverage they'd have to keep him. Those comments make him seem he has one foot out the door already. He's not a franchise player, not a #1 option, but he wants to be paid like one. If Jazz could get 2 lottery picks for him, pull the trigger.
 
Gameface said:
I think there are a bunch of fans, many of them here, who want to watch rebuilds, speculate on recruits, dream up trades, etc., more than they want to watch their team play to win.
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You can tell these people because they're constantly posting in threads like this one, but when they show up in a game thread once in a while, the post starts with "Didn't catch the game tonight, but..."

Hence people who want to trade players still on a rookie contract because apparently, if a player isn't a franchise cornerstone by the age of 24, you should trade him for picks. People who clamor for more draft picks because the draft 2 years from now is always full of players better than the ones we drafted this year. Naturally, 2 years from now, the sequence will repeat. People who talk about how we're never going to win a championship with a certain player, as if we're on the cusp of winning one. We have yet to make the playoffs, but people are talking about what needs to be done to win a freaking championship.

It's all a video game to them. Just enjoy the present, enjoy the team we have, hope they do well. Hayward's only a year older than the Claw, 2 years younger than Curry, and the same freaking age as John Stockton when he was finally given the starting position. And people are talking about how this is as good as it gets and we need to trade him.
 
The only problem with trading Hayward at the trade deadline this year IMO is that this year's draft isn't supposed to be loaded with talent (unlike last year or in 2017).


So if the chances of us getting a superstar is not there, do we let go of Hayward who has been value for money for us? I mean he has been solid and without any injuries.
 
ONE LOVE said:
The only problem with trading Hayward at the trade deadline this year IMO is that this year's draft isn't supposed to be loaded with talent (unlike last year or in 2017).


So if the chances of us getting a superstar is not there, do we let go of Hayward who has been value for money for us? I mean he has been solid and without any injuries.
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That pick would have a chance to be a top-3 pick if they trade for it at the deadline though..

Letting Hayward go would mean watching him walk for nothing after next season. Not trading him and recouping value. The draft pool is far from finalized, 1st round picks show up late, who knows if someones got a Bruno Caboclo hiding somewhere, or Juan Vaulet from the last draft.

Then there's also value in Haywards contract coming off the books, pretty sure it'd cut the salary to 40 something mil next season.. and according to this article the cap will be 108..
 
JimLes said:
You can tell these people because they're constantly posting in threads like this one, but when they show up in a game thread once in a while, the post starts with "Didn't catch the game tonight, but..."

Hence people who want to trade players still on a rookie contract because apparently, if a player isn't a franchise cornerstone by the age of 24, you should trade him for picks. People who clamor for more draft picks because the draft 2 years from now is always full of players better than the ones we drafted this year. Naturally, 2 years from now, the sequence will repeat. People who talk about how we're never going to win a championship with a certain player, as if we're on the cusp of winning one. We have yet to make the playoffs, but people are talking about what needs to be done to win a freaking championship.

It's all a video game to them. Just enjoy the present, enjoy the team we have, hope they do well. Hayward's only a year older than the Claw, 2 years younger than Curry, and the same freaking age as John Stockton when he was finally given the starting position. And people are talking about how this is as good as it gets and we need to trade him.
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Welp I watch all the games so not me. I enjoy the team we have but I recognize it's ravaged with injuries and i'm looking ahead, because the core's strong and young, and the teams loaded with picks and possible outcomes.

Salary cap ramifications are very real, it's prudent to deal with some issues ahead of time, this might be one of them - we're talkng about the difference between a high-end rookie contract and a near 30million dollar per year contract.. It presents flexibility issues. It was first brought up in this thread in the article, not by me.
 
PG_AB said:
That pick would have a chance to be a top-3 pick if they trade for it at the deadline though..

Letting Hayward go would mean watching him walk for nothing after next season. Not trading him and recouping value. The draft pool is far from finalized, 1st round picks show up late, who knows if someones got a Bruno Caboclo hiding somewhere, or Juan Vaulet from the last draft.

Then there's also value in Haywards contract coming off the books, pretty sure it'd cut the salary to 40 something mil next season.. and according to this article the cap will be 108..
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I'm looking at top 4 this year and even with the top 4 I'm not 100% convinced there is a sure bet All Star ala last year with Towns, Okafor, Russell and Porzingis.


Simmons - question his shooting.
Ingram - may be good.
Bender - a Euro.
Kris Dunn - old.


Sorry but I'm not sold on any of them.
 
Best thing would be to keep their core players (I'm assuming their projected starters for next year - Gobert, Favors, Hayward, Hood and Exum plus Lyles) and then try to leverage some combination of Burks, Burke, Withey, Booker's expiring deal and a plethora of draft picks to get one more guy that completes the team as an alpha scorer. If that fails, then you look at possibly moving Hayward at the next deadline like the Suns did with Dragic. They need to see what they could have if healthy and add one more piece before blowing it all up. Trading Hayward is exactly that.
 
ONE LOVE said:
I'm looking at top 4 this year and even with the top 4 I'm not 100% convinced there is a sure bet All Star ala last year with Towns, Okafor, Russell and Porzingis.


Simmons - question his shooting.
Ingram - may be good.
Bender - a Euro.
Kris Dunn - old.
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Kris Dunn is a better prospect than Marcus Smart, he'd certainly play better than Smart would for the Jazz and he's probably ready to handle a decent amount of minutes as a rookie.

Bender's exceptionally young for this draft, and he's 7'1" which means he's a project, he's a big-time prospect, with a very high ceiling, and with added strength his game will be even more effective.

Jamal Murray is a top-4 player easily, DX has it wrong. He's a better prospect than C.J. McCollum, and Dunn.

Skal Labissiere would be a major get for the Jazz to downplay his talents would be foolish, he'd showcase incredibly well next to the likes of Gobert, Favors and Lyles.

Jaylen Brown is a dynamo swingman prospect and in the upper echelon of this draft.

Jakob Poeltl is also one of the best prospects in this draft and he's probably one of the more NBA ready players.
 
The problem is it seems DL is intent on only getting the 'guy who will fit' in Utah and that restricts your pool by a lot.


Like I'm pretty sure that's why he didn't offer Isiah Thomas the contract when he was a FA, pretty sure we needed a PG at that time too. Now he's a star for the Celtics.


Same thing with Reggie Jackson, I'm pretty sure the reason we didn't go hard for him was because of his questionable attitude. He is now a fringe All Star for Detroit.


If we're gonna keep waiting around for the 'right player' with the 'right attitude' the draft is really the only place we could do that in.
 
ONE LOVE said:
I'm looking at top 4 this year and even with the top 4 I'm not 100% convinced there is a sure bet All Star ala last year with Towns, Okafor, Russell and Porzingis.


Simmons - question his shooting.
Ingram - may be good.
Bender - a Euro.
Kris Dunn - old.


Sorry but I'm not sold on any of them.
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What kind of a description is "a Euro"?
 
PG_AB said:
Kris Dunn is a better prospect than Marcus Smart, he'd certainly play better than Smart would for the Jazz and he's probably ready to handle a decent amount of minutes as a rookie.

Bender's exceptionally young for this draft, and he's 7'1" which means he's a project, he's a big-time prospect, with a very high ceiling, and with added strength his game will be even more effective.

Jamal Murray is a top-4 player easily, DX has it wrong. He's a better prospect than C.J. McCollum, and Dunn.

Skal Labissiere would be a major get for the Jazz to downplay his talents would be foolish, he'd showcase incredibly well next to the likes of Gobert, Favors and Lyles.

Jaylen Brown is a dynamo swingman prospect and in the upper echelon of this draft.

Jakob Poeltl is also one of the best prospects in this draft and he's probably one of the more NBA ready players.
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But can any of these guy be our #1 go-to player in the future? Don't think we can say that with even an 80% certainty....


I'd much rather us get a solid 2017 pick which I'd heard is a loaded year talent wise.
 
My gut says the Jazz will have to make a move with Hayward the way they did with DWill. I know there were extenuating circumstances with DWill but same endgame. Make a deal before he can walk or Jazz are left with zip, zilch, nada.
 
ONE LOVE said:
The problem is it seems DL is intent on only getting the 'guy who will fit' in Utah and that restricts your pool by a lot.


Like I'm pretty sure that's why he didn't offer Isiah Thomas the contract when he was a FA, pretty sure we needed a PG at that time too. Now he's a star for the Celtics.


Same thing with Reggie Jackson, I'm pretty sure the reason we didn't go hard for him was because of his questionable attitude. He is now a fringe All Star for Detroit.


If we're gonna keep waiting around for the 'right player' with the 'right attitude' the draft is really the only place we could do that in.
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The 800 lb gorilla in the room.
 
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