Utah's long journey to relevance

[Ron Mexico]

If jazz trade Hayward for picks we will be in the lottery for at least 2 more years. The jazz can't afford that. The casual fan will not be going to games. We are going to get healthy and be fine. We might make some trades but we don't need to. We simply need to build for the playoffs in free agency next if season. Jazz didn't do that this year because they wanted to see what we have.

Sent from my 0PM92 using Tapatalk

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Are teh Jazz doomed to trading their best players after 6 or 7 years because the fan base is insecure that anyone will re-sign with us in UFA?

 

[akirac73]

Are teh Jazz doomed to trading their best players after 6 or 7 years because the fan base is insecure that anyone will re-sign with us in UFA?

If trades were conducted by fan bases, no player would ever make it through entire season with one team.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Are teh Jazz doomed to trading their best players after 6 or 7 years because the fan base is insecure that anyone will re-sign with us in UFA?

Nah the rules favor us much more with a guy like Hayward. If it was Durant or a megastar I could see them passing on the extra year but a borderline all star can't pass on that dough. We still control things. I'd trade Hayward if it was a robbery, which could be on the table based on a theory windhorst had on the Lowe post, but short of that I'd pass and look to improve the parts around the main pieces. The theory windhorst had is that there are no sellers and teams building up treasure troves of assets. If Boston offered 4 first rounders for Winslow would they offer the Bkn pick plus a couple others?

 

[ijazz]

Are teh Jazz doomed to trading their best players after 6 or 7 years because the fan base is insecure that anyone will re-sign with us in UFA?

To a degree.

In Haywards case I think he has no issue with Utah other than his next contract will be the prime of his career and I assume he wants to win

 

[Spaniard]

I agree with PG_AB. I'm down for another 6 yr rebuild. Just keep Rudy, Exum and Hood.

 

[♪alt13]

Let's say the salary cap is 108,000,000 in 2018 like it's projected right now.

Hayward signing a max with us would get a 5 year/$186 million dollar deal (!!!)
Hayward signing a max with anybody else would get a 4 year/$137 million dollar deal

He would be leaving a guaranteed year and $49 million on the table

*rough quick estimates. Point is he'd be leaving a lot on the table

You're forgetting his player option(Thanx MJ). Why would he play an extra season at 16 million if he doesn't have to? He won't.

Does he sign a five year deal with Utah in 2017 at 30%?

Does he sign a 4 year deal here or somewhere else with a player option in the 3rd year at which point he would be eligible for 5 year 35%?

Does he sign somewhere else with a player option after the first season at which point that team could offer him 5 year 30%?

And perhaps the question we should be asking is should the Jazz pay G-time 30% of team salary in the first place? Favors is going to want real money next time around and you know Rudy won't settle for less than max. That's potentially 85% of the cap before paying anyone other than those 3, yikes.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Are teh Jazz doomed to trading their best players after 6 or 7 years because the fan base is insecure that anyone will re-sign with us in UFA?

If the team is good, I think that changes things both for Hayward and the more reasonable in the fanbase. There's no way around it, Hayward has been slogging through a crap era of the Utah Jazz.

 

[♪alt13]

Are teh Jazz doomed to trading their best players after 6 or 7 years because the fan base is insecure that anyone will re-sign with us in UFA?

Not if we're winning. These dudes are competitive. We can hold onto our guy if we're winning. There are only a handful of franchises that can lose and keep their stud.

 

[da ThRONe]

You're forgetting his player option(Thanx MJ). Why would he play an extra season at 16 million if he doesn't have to? He won't.

Does he sign a five year deal with Utah in 2017 at 30%?

Does he sign a 4 year deal here or somewhere else with a player option in the 3rd year at which point he would be eligible for 5 year 35%?

Does he sign somewhere else with a player option after the first season at which point that team could offer him 5 year 30%?

And perhaps the question we should be asking is should the Jazz pay G-time 30% of team salary in the first place? Favors is going to want real money next time around and you know Rudy won't settle for less than max. That's potentially 85% of the cap before paying anyone other than those 3, yikes.

To say that the idea to sell on Hayward right now is a sign of weakness is a narrow way to view this situation. Any smart person has to access all factors. When your team has this much of it's core due significant pay raises and isn't even a lock for a playoff spot it's a tough decision.

 

[vegas]

Money is not the only factor for a few select players. Consider Stockton making $7 mil while Karl made $19. In 2014 Miami had 3 players over $18 mil, the spurs didn't have anybody over $12 mil. This year Duncan only makes $5 mil. Contrast that with the Kobe mentality.

The Jazz know they will have to get some people on a discount. I think Favors knew he could get more money elsewhere, for example.

 

[♪alt13]

To say that the idea to sell on Hayward right now is a sign of weakness is a narrow way to view this situation. Any smart person has to access all factors. When your team has this much of it's core due significant pay raises and isn't even a lock for a playoff spot it's a tough decision.

We shouldn't have waited til the end of Favs/Hayward rookie deals to rebuild. We shouldn't have lost Sap and Al for nothing. We can't afford our players going forward and they are fighting for the 8th seed. If we wait to sell their value will be diminished. We should sell now and rebuild the right way with assets. If we wait we risk being in the same position in with Rudy/Hood in 6 years as we are with G-time/Favs now.

 

[♪alt13]

Money is not the only factor for a few select players. Consider Stockton making $7 mil while Karl made $19. In 2014 Miami had 3 players over $18 mil, the spurs didn't have anybody over $12 mil. This year Duncan only makes $5 mil. Contrast that with the Kobe mentality.

The Jazz know they will have to get some people on a discount. I think Favors knew he could get more money elsewhere, for example.

Those teams were winners, big time. The current era Jazz aren't that.

 

[ijazz]

Nah the rules favor us much more with a guy like Hayward. If it was Durant or a megastar I could see them passing on the extra year but a borderline all star can't pass on that dough. We still control things. I'd trade Hayward if it was a robbery, which could be on the table based on a theory windhorst had on the Lowe post, but short of that I'd pass and look to improve the parts around the main pieces. The theory windhorst had is that there are no sellers and teams building up treasure troves of assets. If Boston offered 4 first rounders for Winslow would they offer the Bkn pick plus a couple others?

We control nothing with Hayward. He is an unrestricted FA after NEXT season. 120 more games left as a Jazzman give or take....

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

So, would you guys trade Hayward and Favors for Blake Griffin - Jamal Crawford as the principal pieces in a trade?

https://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hxkokpb

The Clippers win more without Blake than with him. He just punched a Clipper employee. The ship is sinking in LA. This gets them young with two budding stars. We get the better player. They get two for 1. I am not saying I am for doing this, but just wondering. Griffin and Gobert makes for a great dynamic on offense/defense. Jazz then build around Griffin, Gobert, and Hood. I would say it's a pretty fair deal all around.

 

[da ThRONe]

We shouldn't have waited til the end of Favs/Hayward rookie deals to rebuild. We shouldn't have lost Sap and Al for nothing. We can't afford our players going forward and they are fighting for the 8th seed. If we wait to sell their value will be diminished. We should sell now and rebuild the right way with assets. If we wait we risk being in the same position in with Rudy/Hood in 6 years as we are with G-time/Favs now.

I agree 100%. Teams that aren't big FA hotspots need to take advantage of the benefits of rookie contracts.

 

[vegas]

Those teams were winners, big time. The current era Jazz aren't that.

And they never will be if they don't figure out a way to sign cheap contracts. I'm way more optimistic than most that the Jazz can achieve this and are already taking the steps to do so. I'm simply saying I reject some of the assumptions than are made when projecting options for building the team.

 

[♪alt13]

And they never will be if they don't figure out a way to sign cheap contracts. I'm way more optimistic than most that the Jazz can achieve this and are already taking the steps to do so. I'm simply saying I reject some of the assumptions than are made when projecting options for building the team.

There is a way. You need to be a winner while you have guys on rookie and sophomore contracts. We need to win right now. Guys have to buy in today. You have to win as you're developing guys not after they have developed. You need vet value contract depth, which we didn't get because we were busy bakking.

Alternatively you can draft a superstar.

We didn't do either, so we are stuck.

 

[MDAV28]

You're forgetting his player option(Thanx MJ). Why would he play an extra season at 16 million if he doesn't have to? He won't.

Does he sign a five year deal with Utah in 2017 at 30%?

Does he sign a 4 year deal here or somewhere else with a player option in the 3rd year at which point he would be eligible for 5 year 35%?

Does he sign somewhere else with a player option after the first season at which point that team could offer him 5 year 30%?

And perhaps the question we should be asking is should the Jazz pay G-time 30% of team salary in the first place? Favors is going to want real money next time around and you know Rudy won't settle for less than max. That's potentially 85% of the cap before paying anyone other than those 3, yikes.

You're grasping. All options leave money on the table and he is betting on himself. Players will more often than not go for the guaranteed deals and if somebody wants to sign him to a max with player options go for it they obviously value him as a superstar which means we as a team are probably winning anyways with Hayward our superstar

 

[♪alt13]

Also everybody needs to quit blaming our "market". When you have guys leave the team but retain a home here that says something. The Wasatch is a great place to live and right now SLC is developing into a better city than it has ever been. This is a Jazz problem not an SLC problem.

Everything Utahn is doing better than it was 10 years ago except the Jazz.