Victims!

[Hopper]

Tried to post this in a thread which has now been closed. This is NOT intended to elicit a response from Kicky, any mod, or anyone else who doesn't care to respond.

Aint has offically (as announced by me, in my capacity as a moderator) been the recipient of the most full due process in the history of jazzfanz.

"Due process," heh. One of the most fundamental aspects of "due process" is the right to confront your accusers. After all these pages, I was just recently told what the nature of the "complaint" was. I then addressed that "complaint" without a word of reply. If I had been told of it, long ago, many of these issues would never had arisen. The mods tried hard to give me the impression that "they" had a complaint, which I presumed arose sua sponte. Turns out, they were merely trying their best to cater to the capricious whims of an unidentified "victim" who complained that he had been harmed by his own voluntary decisions and choices. Therein lies the "real" issue, as I see it, but it never got addressed in the least.

 

[Hopper]

Why do "victims" complain about the natural and foreseeable consequences of their own actions, I wonder? Anybody got any ideas?

 

[Gameface]

Why do "victims" complain about the natural and foreseeable consequences of their own actions, I wonder? Anybody got any ideas?

I'm not trying to be a smart *** (and I might be saving you from making too many posts in a row by responding) but, you might want to ask yourself that very question.

The way things work around here may or may not be fair. I suppose that depends a lot on who you ask. Things around here are, for the most part, predictable in how they work. I would assume a smart enough person would be able to observe the way these things work and avoid doing things that would lead to an undesired outcome. When a person who is smart enough to know better does things that will almost certainly lead to what would generally be an undesirable outcome, over and over again, you have to assume that the result they are getting is the result they desire.

Some people, believe it or not, like to have things to complain about and like it even more if they are considered victims in one way or another.

 

[Hopper]

The way things work around here may or may not be fair. Things around here are, for the most part, predictable in how they work.

Well, Game, you are echoing some sentiments that have been discussed before in this forum. That's not really the point of this thread, but it's still a good question.

A message board need not be fair. The rule here could be "Anyone who takes any position that supports Obama will be immediately banned." Might not seem fair or reasonable, but, you still know that if you say "I support President Obama," you will be immediately banned. So, if you say it, expect to be banned.

But that's a little different than a rule that says: "If you say anything the mods don't like, you will be immediately banned." That's not fair or reasonable either, probably, but in that case you really can't, as you suggest, "predict" what words or statements will get you banned.

See the difference?

 

[Gameface]

I do, but I disagree that this board is not moderated in a pretty predictable way.

 

[Hopper]

I do, but I disagree that this board is not moderated in a pretty predictable way.

Well, fair enough, Game. What appears to be "predictable" can vary from person to person. Someone with pyschic powers (assuming such things exist) could predict more than I could, I'm sure.

Like I said, though, that really wasn't the question I was asking.

I had in mind a situation more like this (might be a poor example, but it's just one that occurs to me): Say you have an 8-year kid, who has a red rubber ball he's really fond of. One day you take him out to view the ocean from a cliff. Then, impulsively, he throws his ball from off the cliff, into the ocean. He very quickly regrets this, because he desperately wants his ball back. With me so far?

What do you say to that kid if:

1. He says it's all your fault, because you're the one who took him up on the cliff?

2. He screams and hollers and insists that you must dive into the ocean, and retrieve his ball for him? (Assume it's irretrievable, at this point)

What can a parent say in response? What "should" he say?

Obviously, you can always say: "Tell you what, I'll buy you another ball, how's that?" But suppose his response is:

NO! I want MY ball! That ball, and no other ball. Then what?

 

[Hopper]

Just to be clear, Game, although some moderation done on this board may have led me to pose this question, that is NOT what I intend this thread to be about. The moderation done on this board may or may not be quite predictable and quite fair. Either way, that would have nothing to do with the underlying question I'm asking.

 

[Hopper]

Let me try a hypothetical that may be a little less abstract and remote.

Let's say you're a parent with three children. One day the 3 siblings (call them A, B, and C) head off to play at the park down the street with your blessing.

On the way, C gets mad at A, and to spite A, C decides she won't listen to a word A says. A and B are talking to each other. C covers her ears every time A starts to say something. We he is finished, she uncovers her ears, and listens to what B says in response to A. Then A responds to B, and she covers her ears again, and so on.

See the situation?

Now assume that C comes running to you and INSISTS that you make A and B stop talking to each other. When you ask why, she says it's unfair and impolite for them to talk to each other in her presence when she can't be included in the conversation. She says she cannot meaningfully understand, or participate in, their conversation because she can only hear half of it.

What do you tell the girl?

 

[Scat]

Let me try a hypothetical that may be a little less abstract and remote.

Let's say you're a parent with three children. One day the 3 siblings (call them A, B, and C) head off to play at the park down the street with your blessing.

On the way, C gets mad at A, and to spite A, C decides she won't listen to a word A says. A and B are talking to each other. C covers her ears every time A starts to say something. We he is finished, she uncovers her ears, and listens to what B says in response to A. Then A responds to B, and she covers her ears again, and so on.

See the situation?

Now assume that C comes running to you and INSISTS that you make A and B stop talking to each other. When you ask why, she says it's unfair and impolite for them to talk to each other in her presence when she can't be included in the conversation. She says she cannot meaningfully understand, or participate in, their conversation because she can only hear half of it.

What do you tell the girl?

Quit being a baby and grow up.

 

[Hopper]

Quit being a baby and grow up.

Well Marcus, that's one possibility, I suppose. But what if the girl is the youngest, and needs protection? Might be kind of harsh to ignore her wishes, know what I'm sayin?

How about this: Tell A and B that they can talk to each other all day long, so long as C isn't there. But, if C comes around, to just quit talking to each other. You explain to them, that, otherwise, she will be hurt and disappointed. You further explain that they are older, and are expected to be more reasonable and considerate than a younger girl.

Wouldn't that work to resolve the situation, too? And the advantage is that it resolves it in a way where C's feelings don't get hurt, see?

 

[Loki]

What do you tell the girl?

Depends on if A insists on talking in an irritating ebonics accent.

 

[Hopper]

Depends on if A insists on talking in an irritating ebonics accent.

Yeah, Loki, that might make a difference, sho nuff. How would it, though?

Assuming that it would, should everyone who speaks in a manner that the girl doesn't like be told to shut up when she comes on the scene?

I suppose if you didn't tell them that, it would be like telling the poor little girl that her desires don't even count, if that's your point.

 

[Loki]

I suppose if you didn't tell them that, it would be like telling the poor little girl that her desires don't even count, if that's your point.

Valid point except that you're comparing a familial situation to a social situation when there are different dynamics. Siblings have to associate with each other over time until they reach a legal age. In real life people that insist on being irritating can be ostracized pretty quick. How that relates to this message board I'm not sure but I'm just saying. Being irritating on a message board is kind of like a person who refuses to shower because they know it will rile people up so they do it for attention and then they get mad when people don't like to be around them. It's not other people's fault because they're uncomfortable around a bad stench. It's the person's fault for doing something annoying on purpose. And then they wonder why nobody likes to be around them. Kind of ironic if you look at it that way.

 

[Hopper]

Valid point except that you're comparing a familial situation to a social situation when there are different dynamics.

Well, Loki, let's expand the dynamics a little, eh? Say there are 10 schoolchildren, not sibilings, all in the same grade. 3 of these hoodlums find it entertaining, interesting, and challenging to talk to each other in pig latin. The other 7 don't understand them, and furthermore they don't WANT to understand.

You're the teacher. The 7 come to you and complain that the other 3 are talking to each other in pig latin at recess, and that they don't like it. They tell you that it "irritates" them. They ask you do make the 3 stop. What do you do?

 

[Hopper]

They ask you do make the 3 stop. What do you do?

Let me carry this a step further. Let's say I'm the teacher, and to avoid unnecessary conflict or irritation for all, I tell the 3 that, if they want to talk pig latin to themselves, that's OK, but they MUST do it in such a manner that no one else can hear them. Go off to the side, or sumthin, ya know? At the same time, you tell the other 7 that if they happen to come across the 3 while they are talking pig latin, to just "ignore" them. To assist them in doing so, I give them all a set of removable ear plugs.

That seems to work for a day or two. But then the 7 return with a new complaint:

They say that they don't want to be excluded from understanding what the 3 are saying. They cannot understand pig latin but they want to KNOW what the 3 are saying. On the basis of this new complaint, they once again ask me to stop the 3 from talking pig latin.

What should I do then?

 

[bordelais7]

Tried to post this in a thread which has now been closed. This is NOT intended to elicit a response from Kicky, any mod, or anyone else who doesn't care to respond.

Funny

 

[VINYLONE]

Hey Hoppy, c'mon, we all know it'z only a madda a time before you get banned again for being a true to form id'yit. So, don't let the door hit ya. Can't say it was a pleasure....more like a train wreck.

 

[TheItinerantSon]

Hey, Hopper.

Stop being such a victim.

BITCH.

 

[Hopper]

BITCH.

Much more of that, Son, and I'm gunna get even with you for hurtin my poor feelings. I will tell a mod on you, tellya what!

I don't see any possible way that they could deny the clear fact that I have been VICTIMIZED by you, do you?

 

[Hopper]

That seems to work for a day or two. But then the 7 return with a new complaint: They say that they don't want to be excluded from understanding what the 3 are saying. They cannot understand pig latin but they want to KNOW what the 3 are saying. On the basis of this new complaint, they once again ask me to stop the 3 from talking pig latin.

What should I do then?

How about I try this?: I count and figure that 7 is more than 3, and that it's easier to change the habits of, and ignore the wishes of, 3 than 7. So I tell the 3, who happen to be boys, to stop goin off to the corner of the schoolyard and talking pig latin amongst themselves in a way the other 7, who happen to be girls, don't understand.

I instruct the 3 to start interacting with the 7 girls, who prefer playing hopscotch to talking pig latin, and to talk to them in a way they can understand. And to be polite and not make fun of their girl games either.

Think that might work?