Wall or Shutdown

[The Thriller]

Ok... So a few questions:

#1 Why are we even talking about funding that damn wall? Didn't Donald campaign on Mexico paying for it? So I don't understand why we're even having a debate over Congress funding the wall. If Mexico isn't going to pay for it then shouldn't this project be dead?

#2 Indications are that Senate Democrats aren't going to vote for $5 billion in wall funding which will lead to a government shutdown. Something Donald bragged about last week. He even went as far as saying, "I'll take the mantle." But now he's trying to blame Democrats? Um, ok? Aside from his mindless cult following, who honestly thinks Democrats should be blamed for rejecting this asinine idea and complete waste of money (that we don't have)?

#3 If Mitch removes goes for the nuclear option to get wall funding, doesn't that open the door for 2020 when democrats retake the Senate? In the long run, having a Democratic party controlled House, White House, and filibuster-less Senate in 2021 could lead to some real smashing reforms. If all Democrats need to get is a simple majority in 2021, could we finally see the passing of a single-payer health care system? Higher education reform? Gun laws reform?

I understand that repubs really want to ramrod this wall funding before Nancy Pelosi and the 40 dems take over in January. But Republicans giving up the nuclear option now could really open the door in 2021 for Democrats to greatly expand their power in the long-term.

What do you think?

 

[Gameface]

On point #3, I don't want Democrats to have that power any more than I want Republicans to. This idea that we'd have "smashing reforms" is nieve imho. Democrats are not the heroes of our government and Republicans the villains. That is fat crayon ********.

 

[The Thriller]

On point #3, I don't want Democrats to have that power any more than I want Republicans to. This idea that we'd have "smashing reforms" is nieve imho. Democrats are not the heroes of our government and Republicans the villains. That is fat crayon ********.

I don’t desire it either. By “smashing” I mean significant. Single payer health care would be a huge change as would gun reforms (potentially). if a simple majority is all that’s needed to pass things in the senate, then by 2021 the democrats will be able to truly make some pretty significant reforms as they’ll be in control of all 3 levers of government. Arguably, we would’ve already had a single payer system under Obama if only a mere simple majority was needed back in 2009-2010. Again, not that this is desirable, but they could (potentially) use their VP pick as a tie breaker, just like Trump has done with Pence. The point is, repubs may sacrifice their long term well-being for this idiotic wall. By 2021, they could easily see major reforms that will be seen as major victories for democrats. Honestly, if they want to maintain power they should probably just move on from this wall and shutdown nonsense and fund the government rather than sacrificing the future.

 

[Gameface]

We don't have single payer first because definitely at the time the majority of people in the U.S. were strongly opposed to it. Second because the Democrats caved to the insurance industry and there's no reason to think they won't cave to special interests again in 2021 or whenever.

 

[Zombie]

We don't have single payer first because definitely at the time the majority of people in the U.S. were strongly opposed to it. Second because the Democrats caved to the insurance industry and there's no reason to think they won't cave to special interests again in 2021 or whenever.

I disagree. There is broad grassroots support for medicare for all type reforms that simply didn't exist in 2008.

 

[Gameface]

I disagree. There is broad grassroots support for medicare for all type reforms that simply didn't exist in 2008.

Watch the democrats find a way to keep insurance companies in the loop.

 

[The Thriller]

There’s a always a tweet for everything

 

[The Thriller]

Watch the democrats find a way to keep insurance companies in the loop.

I think this is overly cynical. Every industrialized country has now gone to some form of a single payer system. We might not go full Medicare for all but even Germany runs on nonprofit health insurance companies. If we must keep insurance companies then I see us going to this model. If not for ethical reasons (like universal coverage) then for economic reasons (our current system just isn’t sustwinable).

America isn’t going to remain without universal coverage forever. And while the democrats aren’t perfect, they’re much closer to providing us with universal coverage than the GOP. The GOP’s plan is to not get sick. And if you do get sick, hurry up and die.

 

[Gameface]

I think this is overly cynical. Every industrialized country has now gone to some form of a single payer system. We might not go full Medicare for all but even Germany runs on nonprofit health insurance companies. If we must keep insurance companies then I see us going to this model. If not for ethical reasons (like universal coverage) then for economic reasons (our current system just isn’t sustwinable).

America isn’t going to remain without universal coverage forever. And while the democrats aren’t perfect, they’re much closer to providing us with universal coverage than the GOP. The GOP’s plan is to not get sick. And if you do get sick, hurry up and die.

I think you're a Democrat fanboy who can't hardly even bring yourself to say anything negative about them at all while being equally unable to say anything positive about Republicans.

I bet if you did say something negative about Democrats it would be that they aren't liberal enough.

 

[The Thriller]

I think you're a Democrat fanboy who can't hardly even bring yourself to say anything negative about them at all while being equally unable to say anything positive about Republicans.

I bet if you did say something negative about Democrats it would be that they aren't liberal enough.

Wow how did you get this from the previous post? Fanboy? Really? If that’s the type of conversation we’re going to continue to have then I’m out.

You don’t think we’re headed to single payer system soon? You dont think public support for this has increased since 2008? You don’t think Dems won’t be pushed to at least give us a public option in 2021?

Democrats aren’t perfect. But they’re the only semi-functioning party we have. The current GOP is dead and merely serves as a cult for Trump and his corporate sponsors. What is their party platform anymore?

I think it’s hard to ignore that there’s a strong contingent already pushing for a single payer system. In 2009-2010 we had a Medicare option that was squashed narrowly. You don’t think things have shifted to support it since then?

And you’re right, I can’t find many redeeming qualities from the party of Trump today. Never trumper conservatives I can agree with, especially on foreign policy. But the current gop? What is there to agree with them on today? Remember when they once stood for free trade, strong foreign policy, and fiscal policy? How’s that actually playing out these days?

Here, I’ll save ya some time. If all you’re going to do is fling out insults of “fan boys” and stuff like that, please don’t even bother responding. I won’t read or respond to responses that don’t move this discussion forward. I’m eager to talk about health care and what could potentially happen in 2021 regarding the two parties and the elimination of the filibuster. The filibuster, if anything, helps to keep a shrinking and marginalized party, like the current GOP, in power. It prevents big reforms from taking place. So I’m interested as to why they’re willing to give up long term success for the wall (a short sighted victory).

So if all you want to do is insult or fling labels, im out. I’m not going to engage in a pissing contest.

 

[Gameface]

@The Thriller I'm talking about your entire last several years. You are all about Ds are good Rs are bad.

 

[Gameface]

You want to talk about healthcare, this is a thread about funding for a border wall.

 

[Jazzta]

Wow how did you get this from the previous post? Fanboy? Really? If that’s the type of conversation we’re going to continue to have then I’m out.

You don’t think we’re headed to single payer system soon? You dont think public support for this has increased since 2008? You don’t think Dems won’t be pushed to at least give us a public option in 2021?

Democrats aren’t perfect. But they’re the only semi-functioning party we have. The current GOP is dead and merely serves as a cult for Trump and his corporate sponsors. What is their party platform anymore?

I think it’s hard to ignore that there’s a strong contingent already pushing for a single payer system. In 2009-2010 we had a Medicare option that was squashed narrowly. You don’t think things have shifted to support it since then?

And you’re right, I can’t find many redeeming qualities from the party of Trump today. Never trumper conservatives I can agree with, especially on foreign policy. But the current gop? What is there to agree with them on today? Remember when they once stood for free trade, strong foreign policy, and fiscal policy? How’s that actually playing out these days?

Here, I’ll save ya some time. If all you’re going to do is fling out insults of “fan boys” and stuff like that, please don’t even bother responding. I won’t read or respond to responses that don’t move this discussion forward. I’m eager to talk about health care and what could potentially happen in 2021 regarding the two parties and the elimination of the filibuster. The filibuster, if anything, helps to keep a shrinking and marginalized party, like the current GOP, in power. It prevents big reforms from taking place. So I’m interested as to why they’re willing to give up long term success for the wall (a short sighted victory).

So if all you want to do is insult or fling labels, im out. I’m not going to engage in a pissing contest.

Thriller, your narrative is very tiresome and predictable. The best example of party fanatism that just polarizes the population, but you do you, I learned to tune out from your posts a while ago.

 

[The Thriller]

You want to talk about healthcare, this is a thread about funding for a border wall.

It’s my thread and healthcare reforms is one of the topics to talk about as indicated by point #3 of the original post in this thread that I typed up. If the republicans lower the threshold in the senate to pass “boarder” wall funding now, it might make it far easier to pass reforms like health care because a just simple majority will be needed. I’m interested to hear what others think about that 60 not 51 vote threshold has historically protected the minority party and prevented major reforms from passing. The GOP is a shrinking party so they may just be sacrificing their long-term health for a short-term win for trump.

 

[The Thriller]

@The Thriller I'm talking about your entire last several years. You are all about Ds are good Rs are bad.

Of which the majority of the population and former conservatives agree with me. Never-Trumpers are conservatives who for years now have been raising the warnings of the anti-democratic movement within the GOP. Trump is a symptom of a sick party that needs major reform.

 

[The Thriller]

Thriller, your narrative is very tiresome and predictable. The best example of party fanatism that just polarizes the population, but you do you, I learned to tune out from your posts a while ago.

The next time you add anything of intellectual value to a thread it will be the first. You’ve tuned me out? Oh no, is that supposed to be a concern to me? If you’ve tuned me out why do you keep posting in my threads?

 

[Gameface]

So you can't admit that you're a party loyalist first and foremost?

Okay.

Should I start a thread and put up a poll? I bet 95% of people will vote for "Thriller is a Democrat fanboy" But you can't see it and you can't admit it. That's on you.

 

[The Thriller]

So you can't admit that you're a party loyalist first and foremost?

Okay.

Should I start a thread and put up a poll? I bet 95% of people will vote for "Thriller is a Democrat fanboy" But you can't see it and you can't admit it. That's on you.

Do what you wish but the fact that you’re missing some key points from the last few posts leads me to believe you’re just arguing for the sake of arguing and have nothing further to add to the discussion.

Is calling someone x-fanboy supposed to act as an insult? Is it supposed to discredit their arguments?

 

[Darkwing Duck]

Lol. Such hilarity. Complains about not wanting to engage because of insults, then questions anything as if it's supposed to be an insult.

Worst poster on the board. Said that several times. So much lack of self recognition.

 

[The Thriller]

I think this is overly cynical. Every industrialized country has now gone to some form of a single payer system. We might not go full Medicare for all but even Germany runs on nonprofit health insurance companies. If we must keep insurance companies then I see us going to this model. If not for ethical reasons (like universal coverage) then for economic reasons (our current system just isn’t sustwinable).

America isn’t going to remain without universal coverage forever. And while the democrats aren’t perfect, they’re much closer to providing us with universal coverage than the GOP. The GOP’s plan is to not get sick. And if you do get sick, hurry up and die.

@Bulletproof In response to this post you called me a democratic fanboy:

I think you're a Democrat fanboy who can't hardly even bring yourself to say anything negative about them at all while being equally unable to say anything positive about Republicans.

I bet if you did say something negative about Democrats it would be that they aren't liberal enough.

It’s just a weird response to a series of posts asking two major questions:

1. In 2021 will democrats push for major reforms (ex. Health care, gun control) since they’ll have control of all 3 levers of government?
2. If senate republicans lower the threshold to 51, what long-term effects will that have?

Responding by calling someone a fanboy or a homer seems to be a weird way of answering these questions.