Wall or Shutdown

[str8line]

Let me clear something up.

I think Trump represents something extraordinarily bad. Something that has already done significant damage to our nation and has the potential to do much more damage. I think Trump is a special situation. He is something that I think needs to be opposed with every fiber of our being as a decent people.

He has taken over the Republican party. It was easy because of the marriage between evangelical Christian conservatives and the Republican party. They feel like they are losing their grip on "their" country and they want someone who can save them from their worst nightmare, that they get treated the same way Mexicans, black people and Muslims get treated. Trump has massive appeal to them. He is "telling it like it is," which is to say, he is saying what they want to hear, regardless of any basis in facts. They want to believe it. They'll believe it no matter what kind of ****amamy false reality they have to construct to keep on believing it.

Republicans who have stood up to him have been destroyed by Trump's rabid base. So, they've stopped standing up to him. It's disgraceful, but they don't see any other way.

The Republicans will emerge from this tattered and torn. I'm honestly not sure if the party as we've known it for my lifetime will survive. The racists and the fundamentalist Christians aren't going to just go away. They are going to be fielding candidates and doing everything to weild whatever power they have for as long as they can. If the Republican party wants to be the party that takes them onboard and fights their fight... well, I guess we'll see where that gets them. But if there is a split and fiscal conservatism and otherwise reasonably inclusive policy wins out and rejects the racists and religious fundamentalists then the Republican party will have to evolve and evolve quickly. They'll need to replace that block of voters.

Anyway, I'm going off-topic.

Right now it isn't a case of both parties suck equally. Right now the party of Trump is dragging our nation into the dirt like it has never been dragged into the dirt before. The rejection of reality is scary. The rationalization of anything and everything in an us vs them political climate is a clear and present danger to the U.S.. This is a special threat and needs to be treated that way.

But that doesn't mean Democrats are good and wholesome and in this to save the day. I don't need to politely listen to nonsense about how great the policies the Democrats will enact are going to be. This, for me, is not a fight to get the Democrats in power so they can do all the wonderful things they want to do, this is a fight to get Trump the **** out of office and make clear that his actions have been unacceptable and that we should never allow something like this or someone like him to be our President ever again. That the nationalists have no place at the big boy table. That fundamental Christianity is not compatible with modern society and we don't have to accept them controlling a political party.

Great post. This is not about party or politics, this is about Trump. But don't we have to support Democrats to get rid of or at least stand up to Trump?

 

[Gameface]

Great post. This is not about party or politics, this is about Trump. But don't we have to support Democrats to get rid of or at least stand up to Trump?

Yes, and I have. Trump has absolutely pushed me closer to the Democratic party than I have ever been. By a lot.

 

[babe]

The hate?

What a joke.

Don't confuse passion for hate. I know English is tricky for you. I hope for your sake it is at the least a third or fourth language and not your native tongue, because you suck at comprehending it.

now there you go again. The Trump hate. don't deny it, I know it's you. And because so many people are calling Trump a racist, I think w/o real basis in fact. I don't think he cares about any color but green. So I acknowledge your point that you did not explicitly state "Republicans are racists". That's a fact. You did not.

And I will also state that "Democrats are not racists". I don't think very many people today would really make "race" a big issue. But maybe I live in a sheltered little enclave of assorted Mexicans, Chinese, and Tibetan folks who don't burn crosses on my lawn.

I object to the polarization that some induce by overworking the issue in the media. Trying to make us all afraid of our own shadows.....

 

[Gameface]

now there you go again. The Trump hate. don't deny it, I know it's you. And because so many people are calling Trump a racist, I think w/o real basis in fact. I don't think he cares about any color but green. So I acknowledge your point that you did not explicitly state "Republicans are racists". That's a fact. You did not.

And I will also state that "Democrats are not racists". I don't think very many people today would really make "race" a big issue. But maybe I live in a sheltered little enclave of assorted Mexicans, Chinese, and Tibetan folks who don't burn crosses on my lawn.

I object to the polarization that some induce by overworking the issue in the media. Trying to make us all afraid of our own shadows.....

What post are you even responding to? Not the one you quoted.

Holy **** you suck at English. Like really really bad.

 

[babe]

What post are you even responding to? Not the one you quoted.

Holy **** you suck at English. Like really really bad.

So you started out tonight in this thread with a really torrid spiel about Trump.... and that's what I have had in mind ever since.

and stuff the "suck at English" thing.... it's kinda trite when you are not even paying attention to the context of the thread.

The whole shutdown v. wall proposition from the outset laid out the alleged racism of Trump and the Republicans, which has been quite the tune for CNN and other mainstream media for many months. The Trump opponents are swimming in it. It might not be your stink, but it is the stink you are swimming in.

 

[babe]

I think the valid reasons for doing some more wall have a lot of impact on preventing gang abuse of their customers. I think we need to shut down the gang outfits and destroy their business. Let the folks come to the entry points with their claims. I think we would be pretty favorable to real needs. Otherwise, I think we need to set up more offices in the places near the homes of these people, so they can file legal applications and not have to go on the long march.

We need a lot of immigrants to keep our economy growing strong. We need them to be legal. We need to destroy the illegal smuggling business that trashes and destroys so many humans.

 

[Gameface]

So you started out tonight in this thread with a really torrid spiel about Trump.... and that's what I have had in mind ever since.

and stuff the "suck at English" thing.... it's kinda trite when you are not even paying attention to the context of the thread.

The whole shutdown v. wall proposition from the outset laid out the alleged racism of Trump and the Republicans, which has been quite the tune for CNN and other mainstream media for many months. The Trump opponents are swimming in it. It might not be your stink, but it is the stink you are swimming in.

Show me one time where CNN called Trump a racist. One time. Not that one time when Alex Jones told you CNN did that, one time when CNN actually did that.

I also don't call Trump a racist, although it's hard to deny he make decisions based on race a lot. I say he is sympathetic to racists. He is. He courts them. They are his most loyal voters. He will never cast them off.

 

[Red]

Trump is, in his essence, the first "professional troll" to become president.

He watches tv far too many hours of the day. Obviously, Fox leads his hit parade. He spends an inordinate amount of time on Twitter trolling anybody who has not portrayed him in a good light, anybody who disagrees or criticizes him. He has warned the Democrats that he will regard any effort by them to provide oversight as an invitation for him to go to war with them. Unlike all previous presidents, he will not be subject to oversight.

He governs through Twitter and rallies. His new acting chief of staff has stated he wants more rallies. And all Trump does at rallies is troll. To the cheers of that core of his followers who like nothing more then a president who trolls and trashes the elites and anybody who opposes him. Because they love trolling themselves. This is their contribution to our national dialogue.

In his visit to the troops in Iraq this Christmas, he delivered a speech best suited for one of his rallies. Trolling and trashing Democrats. But, need it even be said that at such a time, in such a speech, one does not attempt to talk to America's troops in the vein of a political rally? Politicizing a visit to troops in a conflict zone is sick. Period. It's entirely inappropriate. But not for our Troll-in-Chief.

In addition to being a troll, how does he regard the expertise of his generals? As inferior to his gut instinct. How does he regard the expertise of scientists? As inferior to his intellect, because he has "a big brain" and he has "a natural understanding of science". What does this sound like? It sounds like an attitude that much of his base shares. That authority in something like science is no longer of any value. In the age of the internet, everyone becomes an expert.

Trump is a troll who, in a clear example of the Dunning-Kruger effect, believes he knows a whole lot more then he knows. And the core of his base is right there with him in that respect. Who needs expertise in science, or other fields that once depended on people who spent years being educated in the specialty of their chosen career? Trash them all, and it's fun to boot!

The core of his followers like nothing more then a president who trolls. They themselves like nothing better then trolling their perceived enemies. Trump is the Troll-in-Chief leading his army of trolls. It's just too much fun to troll all those authorities and opposition that his followers perceive to be responsible for all their problems.

And that is what we are settling for. A president who spends his day in front of the boob tube, listening to right wing talking points, trolling away daily, and elected Republican officials who realize they need that base to win primaries, so shut their mouth they do.

We have an emperor with no clothes, who is his own authority on any subject you name, leading an army of trolls. Great state of affairs.

 

[One Brow]

I think you're nuts calling Republicans any kind of racist. 98% are not. Lincoln thought slavery was repugnant. Really. A few maybe, maybe holed up in the woods of Washinton State or Oregon. My gal Sonnie Johnson points out the historical turning point for the Republican abandonment of the black vote..... led by Republican progressives, the antecedents of todays RINOs like Romney and the Bushes, beginning in the 1890s. The Rs had the black vote, then just dropped the ball. But the Ds were racists, "The Racists", who held on to segregation until the 1960s while Republicans were voting for change of all that. The Ds have more of al historical connection with the KKK clear down to Sen. Byrd of VA who was so important to the Clintons, along with other racists of recent note. The Ds owe their black vote to LBJ and the Great Society.... but a lot of blacks are now rethinking all that, and hating on the socialism of it. Wanting opportunity like what Trump is promoting.

You don't have to be a racist to be a Republican, but if you are a racist, you will be welcome in the Republican party. The Democrats were the party were racists felt comfortable, until (starting in the 1940s and going on through the 1960s, when civil rights became more and more central to the Democratic party platforms, legislative agendas, and executive actions) they realized their view was no longer welcome in the Democratic party. When they couldn't form a respectable party on their own, Nixon and the Republicans swooped in and scooped them up.

You'll find very few black people who think Trump has done anything to promote opportunities for black people and who were not already Republicans before Trump. The only thing Trump has done for black people is taking out newspaper ads demanding that they be jailed.

 

[fishonjazz]

Let me clear something up.

I think Trump represents something extraordinarily bad. Something that has already done significant damage to our nation and has the potential to do much more damage. I think Trump is a special situation. He is something that I think needs to be opposed with every fiber of our being as a decent people.

He has taken over the Republican party. It was easy because of the marriage between evangelical Christian conservatives and the Republican party. They feel like they are losing their grip on "their" country and they want someone who can save them from their worst nightmare, that they get treated the same way Mexicans, black people and Muslims get treated. Trump has massive appeal to them. He is "telling it like it is," which is to say, he is saying what they want to hear, regardless of any basis in facts. They want to believe it. They'll believe it no matter what kind of ****amamy false reality they have to construct to keep on believing it.

Republicans who have stood up to him have been destroyed by Trump's rabid base. So, they've stopped standing up to him. It's disgraceful, but they don't see any other way.

The Republicans will emerge from this tattered and torn. I'm honestly not sure if the party as we've known it for my lifetime will survive. The racists and the fundamentalist Christians aren't going to just go away. They are going to be fielding candidates and doing everything to weild whatever power they have for as long as they can. If the Republican party wants to be the party that takes them onboard and fights their fight... well, I guess we'll see where that gets them. But if there is a split and fiscal conservatism and otherwise reasonably inclusive policy wins out and rejects the racists and religious fundamentalists then the Republican party will have to evolve and evolve quickly. They'll need to replace that block of voters.

Anyway, I'm going off-topic.

Right now it isn't a case of both parties suck equally. Right now the party of Trump is dragging our nation into the dirt like it has never been dragged into the dirt before. The rejection of reality is scary. The rationalization of anything and everything in an us vs them political climate is a clear and present danger to the U.S.. This is a special threat and needs to be treated that way.

But that doesn't mean Democrats are good and wholesome and in this to save the day. I don't need to politely listen to nonsense about how great the policies the Democrats will enact are going to be. This, for me, is not a fight to get the Democrats in power so they can do all the wonderful things they want to do, this is a fight to get Trump the **** out of office and make clear that his actions have been unacceptable and that we should never allow something like this or someone like him to be our President ever again. That the nationalists have no place at the big boy table. That fundamental Christianity is not compatible with modern society and we don't have to accept them controlling a political party.

Helluva post

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[fishonjazz]

What post are you even responding to? Not the one you quoted.

Holy **** you suck at English. Like really really bad.

Dude, don't read his posts.
I have 4 people on ignore.
2 of those people I often stupidly click the "view post" button. Dutch I extremely rarely click the view button. Babe, literally never. He is the worst of them all.

Dutch is simply a misguided moron. That's not too bad. Just kinda sad

Babe is insane.
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[Miggs]

Dude, don't read his posts.
I have 4 people on ignore.
2 of those people I often stupidly click the "view post" button. Dutch I extremely rarely click the view button. Babe, literally never. He is the worst of them all.

Dutch is simply a misguided moron. That's not too bad. Just kinda sad

Babe is insane.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app

Who are the other two?

 

[babe]

You don't have to be a racist to be a Republican, but if you are a racist, you will be welcome in the Republican party. The Democrats were the party were racists felt comfortable, until (starting in the 1940s and going on through the 1960s, when civil rights became more and more central to the Democratic party platforms, legislative agendas, and executive actions) they realized their view was no longer welcome in the Democratic party. When they couldn't form a respectable party on their own, Nixon and the Republicans swooped in and scooped them up.

You'll find very few black people who think Trump has done anything to promote opportunities for black people and who were not already Republicans before Trump. The only thing Trump has done for black people is taking out newspaper ads demanding that they be jailed.

I think that last sentence points you out as a race-baiter par excellance.

Listen, I understand the agenda you work for.... and others in here..... you and I will never agree on the outcome you hope for.

 

[babe]

Show me one time where CNN called Trump a racist. One time. Not that one time when Alex Jones told you CNN did that, one time when CNN actually did that.

I also don't call Trump a racist, although it's hard to deny he make decisions based on race a lot. I say he is sympathetic to racists. He is. He courts them. They are his most loyal voters. He will never cast them off.

I think Trump does not want to make any effort to seek the five or ten thousand racist votes.... most of which he does not get. Some third party no-account likely gets them. But no one actually knows who they are specifically, on a national level. A few people know one or two.... maybe as many as twenty in some Northern Idaho backwoods location.

I don't see him making any decisions at all negative to blacks, and a number of important decisions that are positive for them, such as the prison sentence reform package.

I don't watch CNN much, but Mark Levin has done a presentation of CNN "journalists" calling him....along with Trump... responsible for race hatred and the Pennsylvania shooting of several Jewish folks at synagogue. I did see the clips on that. I stand on the factual basis of my allegation. I'll research it and present clips if you insist, but I really don't think it would change you set point beliefs and prejudices.

Having a different point of view, and listening to different sources, is not criminal in this country. You have a right to your beliefs. I am no kind of social justice warrior set out to reform anyone who just doesn't want to consider my views. My views in here are just my views. Take'm or leave'm. I good with that.

you do make an interesting challenge for my set points of belief. I like that.

 

[fishonjazz]

Who are the other two?

Hack and naos. Naos has gotten much better though imo probably cause he has had mercy on me and left me alone lately, which I appreciate.

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[One Brow]

I think that last sentence points you out as a race-baiter par excellance.

Listen, I understand the agenda you work for.... and others in here..... you and I will never agree on the outcome you hope for.

I doubt you can come up with an realistic definition of race-baiter. I am well aware we will never agree on the outcome of true equality and social justice.

 

[One Brow]

I don't see him making any decisions at all negative to blacks, and a number of important decisions that are positive for them, such as the prison sentence reform package.

I missed where he actually signed the First Step Act. I stand corrected, he has done a good thing for black people there.

 

[Gameface]

I think Trump does not want to make any effort to seek the five or ten thousand racist votes.... most of which he does not get. Some third party no-account likely gets them. But no one actually knows who they are specifically, on a national level. A few people know one or two.... maybe as many as twenty in some Northern Idaho backwoods location.

I don't see him making any decisions at all negative to blacks, and a number of important decisions that are positive for them, such as the prison sentence reform package.

I don't watch CNN much, but Mark Levin has done a presentation of CNN "journalists" calling him....along with Trump... responsible for race hatred and the Pennsylvania shooting of several Jewish folks at synagogue. I did see the clips on that. I stand on the factual basis of my allegation. I'll research it and present clips if you insist, but I really don't think it would change you set point beliefs and prejudices.

Having a different point of view, and listening to different sources, is not criminal in this country. You have a right to your beliefs. I am no kind of social justice warrior set out to reform anyone who just doesn't want to consider my views. My views in here are just my views. Take'm or leave'm. I good with that.

you do make an interesting challenge for my set points of belief. I like that.

Saying that Trump has inflamed racial tensions and calling Trump a racist are two different things. It's this English language challenge again. I know, it's hard. English is one of the more difficult languages to master.

 

[babe]

Saying that Trump has inflamed racial tensions and calling Trump a racist are two different things. It's this English language challenge again. I know, it's hard. English is one of the more difficult languages to master.

ha ha. It's not Trump doing it, it's the Trumpbashers. See the old rich white guy. Must be doing stuff to hurt you on purpose.

I just think, whatever his gaffes.... he does not imo carry any animosities based on ethnic difference. yes, he wants legal immigrants. yes he wants no more terrorists, no more gangs, no more drug smugglers, no more human traffickers, an end to the warlord cartels who kill hundreds every month.....

he worked with Jesse Jackson being a sorta union boss over his crews doing skyscapers…. mostly black labor in NYC.

my gal Sonnie Johnson said he was just stupid to pick a loser black gal with no cred to front for his black community outreach effort for a while, because the gal was no kinda decent representative for his effort.

Sonnie says there's a wave of young blacks goin' whole hog on socialism of the AOC brand, but there's also a strong wave of independent blacks who want the chance to prosper (capitalist sort). Ain't gonna be a solid block no mo.

 

[babe]

I missed where he actually signed the First Step Act. I stand corrected, he has done a good thing for black people there.

I missed the Pres sig show, if it's happened already.... but I know he supports it, and it passed the Leg. Bipartisan.