We need a backup Center

[jom2003]

There are some exaggerations but saying it would be pretty hard to pull off is not true. I've said he is fine... mostly because he is not effing everything up like Ed was. Ed also wasn't working with the new bench group... so maybe he could be more effective.

What stats show him being an average defender (for a center mind you... center is the most important defensive position)?

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense-dash-lt6/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular

Rim protection stats. On average TB lowers the opponent fg% by 6% for every shot his contested.

https://stats.nba.com/players/hustle/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular Season&PerMode=Per36

And for every 36 min he has contested more shots and recovered more loose balls than Rudy. And those numbers simply aren't bad compared to the rest of the backup centers in this league.

 

[jom2003]

Bradley gets way too much grief for this board. One reason is people see the difference when Rudy isn't playing. Duh.. Rudy is a top 10 player in this league and 2 time DPOY.

Many times Bradley was put in a bad position due to other players not being able to stay in front of their players. Losing the game sucked but I was thinking this might be the game. New Orleans is going to be a beast soon.

Jazz need to find a player who can match up with Ingram. Jazz lost because we couldn't stop him. Not because Bradley fouled or got block (i thought he got slapped on the wrist especially considering Rudy invisible foul).

This. We gotta upgrade our defense on other positions. If we have no solution for someone like ingram right now, just wait till playoffs when we face the likes of Lebron, AD, Kawhi, Giannis... And watch them shoot over Royce all game every game

 

[jom2003]

Besides our backup center, another person who's currently been asked to do too much is Royce. He is constantly being asked to guard players that are much quicker, stronger, bigger than him simply because no one else is up for the task. And he's constantly getting worked and abused by those players, last night against Ingram is just one of the many examples. and his stats have suffered as a result. I feel bad for the guy.

 

[gomretat]

Unless Ed changes the way he is playing he is not the solution - regardless of how he played last year. I think that could still happen but right now we are in serious trouble every time Rudy leaves the floor. This season would be trashed immediately if Rudy goes down.

 

[The Thriller]

Wow it’s almost like Ed Davis has had a Jeff green like journeyman career for a reason or something... 7 different teams in 9 seasons... weird

 

[homeytennis]

When Ed was signed he said he did not practice his 3 point shot. That bothered me.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense-dash-lt6/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular

Rim protection stats. On average TB lowers the opponent fg% by 6% for every shot his contested.

https://stats.nba.com/players/hustle/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular Season&PerMode=Per36

And for every 36 min he has contested more shots and recovered more loose balls than Rudy. And those numbers simply aren't bad compared to the rest of the backup centers in this league.

Those are okay... I just think there is so much noise in any defensive metric. I think when he gets in the game they just attack him. So the 6% reduction is nice... but lots of guys have that... he contested a lot of shots which is nice... but that means they running at him. It also doesn't figure in how many times a game he fouls... free throws are the most efficient way to score in the NBA. He gives up a ton of those.

I'm more convinced on guys that are able to dissuade rim attempts... it's rare obviously.

Thanks for providing... I was genuinely curious what you were referring to, but I'm not convinced.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

https://stats.nba.com/players/defense-dash-lt6/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular

Rim protection stats. On average TB lowers the opponent fg% by 6% for every shot his contested.

https://stats.nba.com/players/hustle/?sort=TEAM_ABBREVIATION&dir=1&Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular Season&PerMode=Per36

And for every 36 min he has contested more shots and recovered more loose balls than Rudy. And those numbers simply aren't bad compared to the rest of the backup centers in this league.

So here is my issue with TB and I finally put numbers to it... he fouls a ton... when he is on the court we shoot 9 less free throws per 100 possessions than our opponent. Is that a big difference? Nope... its ****ing enormous. Houston shoots more free throws than anyone. When Harden is on the court they shoot 7 more than their opponent per 100.

Even if the offense is really good... that is tough to overcome. Ed was fouling too much as well... so your theory that they system might need adjusting could be valid.

 

[jom2003]

Those are okay... I just think there is so much noise in any defensive metric. I think when he gets in the game they just attack him. So the 6% reduction is nice... but lots of guys have that... he contested a lot of shots which is nice... but that means they running at him. It also doesn't figure in how many times a game he fouls... free throws are the most efficient way to score in the NBA. He gives up a ton of those.

I'm more convinced on guys that are able to dissuade rim attempts... it's rare obviously.

Thanks for providing... I was genuinely curious what you were referring to, but I'm not convinced.

Yeah I always believe TB doesn't have very high upside on defense because of his limited vertical/quickness. But we can possibly grow him into a lesser version of Valanciunus, average defender but elite at reboubding and finishing around the rim in half court. Let Conley school him with those pick n roll set.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yeah I always believe TB doesn't have very high upside on defensive because of his limited vertical/quickness. But we can possibly grow him into a lesser version of Valanciunus, average defender but elite at reboubding and finishing around the rim in half court. Let Conley school him with those pick n roll set.

He's nowhere near JV... like not close at all. I think poor mans Cody Zeller is closer.

 

[sgjazzfan]

You got all of that from, "we need a backup center"?
Pretty obvious that White Chocolate wasn't saying that we need to find someone off the bench that makes everyone forget about Gobert. Also pretty obvious that he wasn't slamming Goberts efforts. Also pretty obvious that our current backup Center (Tony Bradley) is far from the right guy to back up Gobert and White Chocolate is absolutely right. I'm aware that this has been said over and over again, but we have to do something if we're going to contend. Bradley is a glaring weakness with our 2nd unit.

OK, name the backup C in the NBA that are better than Bradley, and how are the Jazz going to obtain him? Bradley is playing with 3 below average defenders (niang, Mudiay, Clarkson) and coming in for the best defender in the league. There is going to be a drop off. Jazz absolultely sucked with Davis in. They were HORRIBLE. Even after losing Green it was obvious that Davis was a problem. Bradley isn't. He's not Favors, but Favors is starting at C for a team with a good chance to make the playoffs. He's not a backup. There isn't an option better than Bradley that the Jazz could realistically obtain.

 

[NUMBERICA]

This. We gotta upgrade our defense on other positions. If we have no solution for someone like ingram right now, just wait till playoffs when we face the likes of Lebron, AD, Kawhi, Giannis... And watch them shoot over Royce all game every game

Royce is anything but problem.

 

[idiot]

So here is my issue with TB and I finally put numbers to it... he fouls a ton... Ed was fouling too much as well...

You're correct, but I think you and I have both advocated trying out Juwan Morgan. Unfortunately, Morgan fouled at above 7 fouls per 100 possessions in the G-League. Last couple of years in the G-League, Bradley was about 5.5. Maybe there's a reason Quin hasn't tried Morgan out yet.

 

[SCS]

Royce is anything but problem.

He goes on and on about height. Mike is too small, Donovan is too small, Royce is too small, etc etc

 

[SCS]

I'd love it if we could get Nerlens Noel. I don't know how possible that is. He's on a minimum contract so making it work financially wouldn't be an issue. He is a long and athletic active defender who is fluid enough to guard multiple positions. I think he'd have an easier time doing all that we ask of our center defensively than Bradley does. He creates turnovers with steals and blocks which is something we need more of. And he's shooting 66% from the field. He finishes his opportunities at the rim.

Would OKC consider trading him? What type of offer do you think would entice them?

 

[The Thriller]

Yeah I always believe TB doesn't have very high upside on defense because of his limited vertical/quickness. But we can possibly grow him into a lesser version of Valanciunus, average defender but elite at reboubding and finishing around the rim in half court. Let Conley school him with those pick n roll set.

Awful comparison. What’s your fetish with Bradley? Is he dating your sister or something? We literally haven’t had a worse big in a decade. He makes jokes like Fess, Big Ben, and Curtis Borchart look like Hall of Famers. He sucks. He’s not an nba athlete.

JV looks like zion compared to Bradley athletically. And JV is among the strongest players in the league. Bradley meanwhile struggles to curl those pink dumbbells those hot Corner Canyon High School moms in Draper use.

 

[jom2003]

Royce is anything but problem.

except that's not what i'm suggesting at all. i literally said a post ago that i felt bad for royce because we were asking him to do too much cuz no one else was up for the task. and that is the problem.

 

[jom2003]

He goes on and on about height. Mike is too small, Donovan is too small, Royce is too small, etc etc

except i never said donovan or royce were too small. donovan's wingspan, built, athleticism made up for his lack of size. in fact, most guards look small next to him despite being a few inches taller. in orlando he made Fultz his bitch even though fultz is longer than him. height isn't everything.

and same thing for royce. i said before that he was built like a football player, which was perfect for a perimeter defender. so he really is anything but "small". except he can't guard forwards that are longer, stronger and quicker than him, which is what we've been asking him to do. players just shoot over him without seeing much resistance. it's like asking AK to guard centers like shaq, Yao ming, etc. Would you say AK "too small" cuz Yao or shaq abused him??? i know that aren't many players qualify for the "shaq" or "yao" category as being quicker, stronger, bigger than royce, which means we will probably be fine during regular seasons. but if we really wanna compete for a title, be damn sure you will see those players.

and yes, conley is too small. height isn't everything if you have the muscle or athleticism to make it for it. but mike has neither.

 

[jom2003]

Awful comparison. What’s your fetish with Bradley? Is he dating your sister or something? We literally haven’t had a worse big in a decade. He makes jokes like Fess, Big Ben, and Curtis Borchart look like Hall of Famers. He sucks. He’s not an nba athlete.

JV looks like zion compared to Bradley athletically. And JV is among the strongest players in the league. Bradley meanwhile struggles to curl those pink dumbbells those hot Corner Canyon High School moms in Draper use.

that's why i said "lesser" version of JV. they are similar in that both being considered "too slow" for the modern NBA(though both regarded as bigs with "good mobility" before coming into the league), fouls a ton, good rebounder, and finisher around the rim. JV is superior in the physicality department but he was once also considered "skinny" and "struggles guarding stronger players". it was literally on his scouting report. it definitely took some time for JV to get to where he is now physically.

all im saying is that if TB keeps working on his body as well as those pick n roll sets, he might get there one day.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/jonas-valanciunas/

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/tony-bradley/

 

[The Thriller]

that's why i said "lesser" version of JV. they are similar in that both being considered "too slow" for the modern NBA(though both regarded as bigs with "good mobility" before coming into the league), fouls a ton, good rebounder, and finisher around the rim. JV is superior in the physicality department but he was once also considered "skinny" and "struggles guarding stronger players". it was literally on his scouting report. it definitely took some time for JV to get to where he is now physically.

all im saying is that if TB keeps working on his body as well as those pick n roll sets, he might get there one day.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/jonas-valanciunas/

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/tony-bradley/

saying that Bradley is a “lesser” version of JV is like saying that CJ Miles is a “lesser” version of Ray Allen. It’s such an asinine comparison that it renders your point useless. Thanks for the nbadraft.net links from several years ago (JV’s profile is almost a decade old). Very helpful. I’m just thankful we have that data from nbadraft.net to rely on instead of actual playing experience from those two players.