Would you take up arms against the government? If, say, the 2nd amendment was repealed, or, more likely, reinterpreted? Would you personally shoot police and/or military who were enforcing the law?
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- Thread starter JimLes
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Would you take up arms against the government? If, say, the 2nd amendment was repealed, or, more likely, reinterpreted? Would you personally shoot police and/or military who were enforcing the law?
I think the steps that need to be taken in order to help stop things like this from happening lies largely at the feet of gun advocates and the NRA. The gun control lobby can only do so much to address all the issues we've discussed here. Many gun advocates agree with possible solutions like mental health advocacy, common sense gun laws, etc., but are totally unwilling to work with the other side, let alone bring their own plan to the table.
So, if you're going to argue for limited gun restrictions, and as an unintended consequence gun end up in the wrong hands, what are you going to do to help ensure the safety of those who are left vulnerable?
I see gun advocates talking big when it comes to the 2nd Amendment, but remember that **** ain't free and comes with consequences and responsibilities. So far, I haven't seen groups like the NRA address either.
If I'm wrong, please educate me.
So, if you're going to argue for limited gun restrictions, and as an unintended consequence gun end up in the wrong hands, what are you going to do to help ensure the safety of those who are left vulnerable?
I see gun advocates talking big when it comes to the 2nd Amendment, but remember that **** ain't free and comes with consequences and responsibilities. So far, I haven't seen groups like the NRA address either.
If I'm wrong, please educate me.
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
Not everyone in government would be for banning guns. It wouldn't be an all the People vs. all the Government thing. I could see people within the gov't turning against any attempt to ban guns in America. Don't be so simplistic.
fishonjazz
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What percentage of gun owners use their guns to defend themselves though.
I never have. Sometimes you might even be better off not having a gun in situations where you think it's best to have one.
Say someone breaks into your home intending to rob you and he has a gun. You don't have one and you tell the robber to take what he wants and simply not hurt you or your family and then he does just that.
Now let's say you have a gun and you try to shoot the guy and he tries to shoot you. Maybe you get him, maybe you don't. Maybe your child or wife or yourself gets hit instead.
Maybe you would be better off just letting him steal some **** and then call the cops.
Same goes with alterations on the street. Sometimes it's best to not even have a gun to defend yourself. Some people might even get tempted to use their gun in a situation that they don't need to. Like a road rage incident that could end in a simple fistfight might get taken to a new extreme because someone felt the need to defend themselves with their gun
That doesn't answer my question. Would YOU be willing to shoot a cop or soldier enforcing a legal order?
RandyForRubio
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I'm not shooting anybody if my life isn't being threatened, and even then, still probably not. I probably wouldn't give up all my guns either though, I'd hide a few. But naw, I'm not killing somebody over some dumb law. Are there people that would? You better believe it. And the military/police would more than likely be on the side of the citizens, imo.
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
If I think I haven't done anything wrong and my life was at threat I would do whatever it took to try to stay alive. Again if my life was at threat. Even a rabbit will try to bite back if it's cornered by wolves.
Why are you taking this to the extreme? What's your point?
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
I prefer being under control of the situation rather than trusting a criminal with a gun not to harm me or any members in my family. Chances are the guy is nervous and trigger happy in a tense moment like that one.
Your life isn't being threatened, only your guns, in this hypothetical.
My point is simply that everyone talks about "Oh, there's a large section of the population who wouldn't give up their guns" and they're not considering what that means, nor will they admit to being willing to fire on police.
fishonjazz
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Just having a gun in your hand does not make you in control of anything.
In fact, allot of the time when you have a gun in your hand the level of danger only increases
RandyForRubio
Well-Known Member
But let's figure this out: what are we banning and why?
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Can someone explain why gun education would do anything to prevent mass shootings as they've been done by people with extensive knowledge and training of firearms (military men) as well as by people with seemingly no knowledge whatsoever of firearm use (20 year old urban hipster people)?
Can someone explain why the "mental illness" argument isn't a red herring?
Where are the solutions to preventing people from thinking mass shootings are a viable option? Until this idea is even discussed, we're just spraying air freshener on a turd.
Can someone explain why the "mental illness" argument isn't a red herring?
Where are the solutions to preventing people from thinking mass shootings are a viable option? Until this idea is even discussed, we're just spraying air freshener on a turd.
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
If cops came asking for my guns no I wouldn't shoot them you dumb dumb...
But that's just me. As Howard said maybe somebody would causing an escalation nationwide. I still don't understand why you're taking the conversation there. Everything should be solved by peaceful means if possible. Violence should always be the last resort on both sides of the spectrum.
JimLes
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Or as the great Steve Earle said somewhat more eloquently, "it can get you into trouble but it can't get you out."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW5E8noEbn4
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
I like Steve Earle, I saw him live back in Spain. But so fish and Jimles, a burglar walks into your home, has a gun and you rather not have a gun and invite him to take anything he wants WITH the chance of him being a nut job and shooting you down anyway, than at least having the chance to shoot him down first if things came to worse? Makes sense.
Again, gun ownership should just be considered as a defensive tool against life threatening situations for yourself, that is responsible gun ownership. Unfortunately there are nut jobs everywhere who give responsible gun owners a bad name. And that I believe is the government's agenda to yet have more control over the population. And they're doing a damn good job apparently by turning around the opinion about the purpose for having a 2nd Amendment.
JimLes
Well-Known Member
Wait, so a burglar walks into my home holding a gun, and he's going to give me the chance to go get my gun, which as a responsible owner I keep under key, load it, remove the safety lock, and then shoot him? Who's robbing me here, Larry, Curly, or Moe?
Jamezz
Well-Known Member
Ugh, moving on...
There is so much more to this scenario. What are said police and soldiers, those that comply, doing when they receive a no from someone? How are they treating people that resist?
Even this is not black and white.
Me personally, I would not shoot said person unless I felt my life was in danger. But I promise you that I know people that would great said officers in force and deny them access to their homes and neighborhoods. Then what?
What happens to the military and cops who fail to enforce this order or openly defy it (numerous sheriffs are on record saying they would openly defy such an order)?
How are people going to react when they come to your neighborhood and your neighbor starts fighting back and it gets violent and he gets shot?
What happens when the sheriff of Podunk UT (or TX, TN, GA, MS, AK, MT, OK, AR...) says they will not enforce this order and will not allow it to be enforced within their jurisdiction?
This gets sloppy so many ways so quickly. Someone some where will defy and then another and another and another...
The mountain west, plains states and south are very different ideologically than the pacific coast, great lakes and new England states.
Good post. GF has touched on the damage the NRA is actually doing to guns rights. I agree that the NRA has done very little to nothing to help the problem.
To me they are as extreme as those calling for a full gun ban. But in today's America it is all or nothing. Black or white. They ignore the million shades of grey that we really live in.
I am pro guns but fully believe that are several steps that can be taken to alleviate a very real and very complicated problem. Which includes but is not limited to re-examining how guns are obtained and who can get them.
A CC permit hold could very well have their firearm on them.
In my case they are in my bed side safe. 4 key strokes and it opens and my weapon is right there. Already loaded with no safety. I have dogs so will be awoken and most likely have time to retrieve my weapon before confronting a thief. I doubt they rush straight to my room in the 15 seconds it takes to get my weapon.
But anything can happen and I pray I never have to find out.