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"We're going to war, bro."

We just had a war with Iraq. Thousands of deaths, thousands maimed. Trillions of dollars paid out to military contractors. That war started pretty much the same way.

F*** these assholes and everyone who voted for them really. Honestly the blood is on the hands of Bush voters and this blood will be on the hands of trump voters if it escalates. I just hope most of the deaths and injured are children of those who voted for this b*******. Brutal isn't it?

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I've read online people comparing this to Iraq. While there's similar attempts to paint a war in Iran as a "patriotic endeavor" to protect us against the scurrry mooooslums, I don't see the comparisons.
  • The Bush administration enjoyed a 90+ percent approval rating post 9/11. Trump's has never risen about 50 percent. Bush was never impeached. The national debt is a much greater concern today. Goodluck taking the nation to war after being impeached, eyeing a national debt of $20+ trillion, and enjoying 40 percent approval ratings.
  • The nation was paranoid and scurrrred post 9/11. In 2020, the nation isn't nearly as paranoid about radical Islam. There's zero sense of urgency from the masses that Iran needs regime change. Check back with me if/when they use a nuclear weapon.
  • The Bush administration was disciplined in its messaging. WMDs! Yellowcake! Smoking Gun being a mushroom cloud! So disciplined that even a handful of our allies fell for it. The Trump administration can't even tie its own shoes. The Soleimani killing was justified because he was planning something or the contractor was killed or the embassy was protested at or something. No one knows why and this administration lacks the credibility to give a credible justification. Trump alone can't keep his message straight. Has he tried to stir support for an Iranian invasion on CNN yet? Or Rosie O'Donnell? We all know the real reason too. He felt embarrassed by the embassy protests, wanted to distract from impeachment, and so he chose the most radical option on a list presented to him. The most radical option was put on the list to make the realistic options appear even more realistic.
  • Lastly, the nation had enjoyed relatively bloodless and quick interventions in the Balkans prior to invasions in Afghanistan and Iraq. Yet, those two failed rebuilds are fresh in our minds today. So while a portion of Trump's base is clamoring for over another SHOCK N AWE invasion, most everyone else isn't.
 
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If they hit us and we hit them we are probably at war. I would say sending 3500 troops over there is basically war. It sure is spending like it's war.

War is not occupying Iran because that would result in hundreds of thousands of soldiers deaths. War will be us blowing s*** up and them blowing s*** up. They might target our civilian population stateside with a big bomb at some point... martyr-style. Then it is Trump's move and his ego won't let that fly.

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We're not at war unless Pelosi's House votes for it. Trump cannot hit Iran without a declaration of war. He was able to hit Al-Qaeda targets in Iraq and Syria because of the War Powers granted to presidents because of 9/11 (which does admittedly make the hit on Soleimani interesting...). But he cannot hit Iran without Congress's approval. If he orders hits on Iranian sites, I guess he could still technically do it. But I'd hope you'd see mass resignations from the military. And you could then add another article of impeachment. All of which would be terrible for someone desperate to be reelected in less than one year.

if I’m wrong about this let me know constitution experts.

What kind of hit would convince the majority of Democrats in the House to vote for war with Iran?
 
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A 9/11 type hit would I think.

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yes. Which in that case, a declaration of war would be justified, yes?

but Iran hasn’t shown the willingness or competence to execute such an attack. I’d side with willingness too. They know that as soon as they did something like that they’d unify both American and international support for regime change. Which is also why Trump’s threatening of Iranian cultural sites was so dumb too. Yes merely unifying people against us.

But when you’re dumb enough to bankrupt a casino and your base consists of a bunch of slobbering tv addicts, this desperate strategy to distract from impeachment makes sense.
 
This was written by Michael Klare in the Spring of 2018. I've posted this a couple of times previously in other threads. It just seemed like, sooner or later, what Klare described was bound to happen. Or, the potential for this level of war was there, and these would be the players, etc., if the potential became real.

It's a long essay, I excerpted the section that sort of set the potential stage. Goes without saying, nobody wants this, but it just seems like some version of this has been the worst case potential outcome of something that started with the invasion of Iraq, or earlier. I take it the administration did not think "unintended consequences" of this order would result from offing Soleimani. And it's what Trump wanted. What a risk to take.

https://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/176422/tomgram:_michael_klare,_the_road_to_hell_in_the_middle_east/

"Like the first two Gulf wars, the third could involve high-intensity clashes between an array of American forces and those of Iran, another well-armed state. While the United States has been fighting ISIS and other terrorist entities in the Middle East and elsewhere in recent years, such warfare bears little relation to engaging a modern state determined to defend its sovereign territory with professional armed forces that have the will, if not necessarily the wherewithal, to counter major U.S. weapons systems.

A Third Gulf War would distinguish itself from recent Middle Eastern conflicts by the geographic span of the fighting and the number of major actors that might become involved. In all likelihood, the field of battle would stretch from the shores of the Mediterranean, where Lebanon abuts Israel, to the Strait of Hormuz, where the Persian Gulf empties into the Indian Ocean. Participants could include, on one side, Iran, the regime of Bashar al-Assad in Syria, Hezbollah in Lebanon, and assorted Shia militias in Iraq and Yemen; and, on the other, Israel, Saudi Arabia, the United States, and the United Arab Emirates (UAE). If the fighting in Syria were to get out of hand, Russian forces could even become involved.

All of these forces have been equipping themselves with massive arrays of modern weaponry in recent years, ensuring that any fighting will be intense, bloody, and horrifically destructive. Iran has been acquiring an assortment of modern weapons from Russia and possesses its own substantial arms industry. It, in turn, has been supplying the Assad regime with modern arms and is suspected of shipping an array of missiles and other munitions to Hezbollah. Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE have long been major recipients of tens of billions of dollars of sophisticated American weaponry and President Trump has promised to supply them with so much more.

This means that, once ignited, a Third Gulf War could quickly escalate and would undoubtedly generate large numbers of civilian and military casualties, and new flows of refugees. The United States and its allies would try to quickly cripple Iran’s war-making capabilities, a task that would require multiple waves of air and missile strikes, some surely directed at facilities in densely populated areas. Iran and its allies would seek to respond by attacking high-value targets in Israel and Saudi Arabia, including cities and oil facilities. Iran’s Shia allies in Iraq, Yemen, and elsewhere could be expected to launch attacks of their own on the U.S.-led alliance. Where all this would lead, once such fighting began, is of course impossible to predict, but the history of the twenty-first century suggests that, whatever happens, it won’t follow the carefully laid plans of commanding generals (or their civilian overseers) and won’t end either expectably or well.

(Michael T. Klare, a TomDispatch regular, is a professor of peace and world security studies at Hampshire College and the author, most recently, of The Race for What’s Left. A documentary movie version of his book Blood and Oil is available from the Media Education Foundation. Follow him on Twitter at @mklare1.)
 
This was written by Michael Klare in the Spring of 2018. I've posted this a couple of times previously in other threads. It just seemed like, sooner or later, what Klare described was bound to happen. Or, the potential for this level of war was there, and these would be the players, etc., if the potential became real.

It's a long essay, I excerpted the section that sort of set the potential stage. Goes without saying, nobody wants this, but it just seems like some version of this has been the worst case potential outcome of something that started with the invasion of Iraq, or earlier. I take it the administration did not think "unintended consequences" of this order would result from offing Soleimani. And it's what Trump wanted. What a risk to take.

https://www.tomdispatch.com/blog/176422/tomgram:_michael_klare,_the_road_to_hell_in_the_middle_east/

"Like the first two Gulf wars, the third could involve high-intensity clashes between an array of American forces and those of Iran, another well-armed state. While the United States has been fighting ISIS and other terrorist entities in the Middle East and elsewhere in recent years, such warfare bears little relation to engaging a modern state determined to defend its sovereign territory with professional armed forces that have the will, if not necessarily the wherewithal, to counter major U.S. weapons systems.

A Third Gulf War would distinguish itself from recent Middle Eastern conflicts by the geographic span of the fighting and the number of major actors that might become involved. In all likelihood, the field of battle would stretch from the shores of the Mediterranean, where Lebanon abuts Israel, to the Strait of Hormuz, where the Persian Gulf empties into the Indian Ocean. Participants could include, on one side, Iran, the regime of Bashar al-Assad in Syria, Hezbollah in Lebanon, and assorted Shia militias in Iraq and Yemen; and, on the other, Israel, Saudi Arabia, the United States, and the United Arab Emirates (UAE). If the fighting in Syria were to get out of hand, Russian forces could even become involved.

All of these forces have been equipping themselves with massive arrays of modern weaponry in recent years, ensuring that any fighting will be intense, bloody, and horrifically destructive. Iran has been acquiring an assortment of modern weapons from Russia and possesses its own substantial arms industry. It, in turn, has been supplying the Assad regime with modern arms and is suspected of shipping an array of missiles and other munitions to Hezbollah. Israel, Saudi Arabia, and the UAE have long been major recipients of tens of billions of dollars of sophisticated American weaponry and President Trump has promised to supply them with so much more.

This means that, once ignited, a Third Gulf War could quickly escalate and would undoubtedly generate large numbers of civilian and military casualties, and new flows of refugees. The United States and its allies would try to quickly cripple Iran’s war-making capabilities, a task that would require multiple waves of air and missile strikes, some surely directed at facilities in densely populated areas. Iran and its allies would seek to respond by attacking high-value targets in Israel and Saudi Arabia, including cities and oil facilities. Iran’s Shia allies in Iraq, Yemen, and elsewhere could be expected to launch attacks of their own on the U.S.-led alliance. Where all this would lead, once such fighting began, is of course impossible to predict, but the history of the twenty-first century suggests that, whatever happens, it won’t follow the carefully laid plans of commanding generals (or their civilian overseers) and won’t end either expectably or well.

(Michael T. Klare, a TomDispatch regular, is a professor of peace and world security studies at Hampshire College and the author, most recently, of The Race for What’s Left. A documentary movie version of his book Blood and Oil is available from the Media Education Foundation. Follow him on Twitter at @mklare1.)

disagree. Certainly this little incident in Sarajevo will stay in Sarajevo. There’s nothing to worry about...
 
Exactly, Iran (Persia) is a different monster. The core of what was once labeled “the axis of evil”, with all the potential external participants that could join in. If I were living in Israel I’d be pissed about the US cabinet’s latest actions.
 
I've read online people comparing this to Iraq. While there's similar attempts to paint a war in Iran as a "patriotic endeavor" to protect us against the scurrry mooooslums, I don't see the comparisons.
  • The Bush administration enjoyed a 90+ percent approval rating post 9/11. Trump's has never risen about 50 percent. Bush was never impeached. The national debt is a much greater concern today. Goodluck taking the nation to war after being impeached, eyeing a national debt of $20+ trillion, and enjoying 40 percent approval ratings.
  • The nation was paranoid and scurrrred post 9/11. In 2020, the nation isn't nearly as paranoid about radical Islam. There's zero sense of urgency from the masses that Iran needs regime change. Check back with me if/when they use a nuclear weapon.
  • The Bush administration was disciplined in its messaging. WMDs! Yellowcake! Smoking Gun being a mushroom cloud! So disciplined that even a handful of our allies fell for it. The Trump administration can't even tie its own shoes. The Soleimani killing was justified because he was planning something or the contractor was killed or the embassy was protested at or something. No one knows why and this administration lacks the credibility to give a credible justification. Trump alone can't keep his message straight. Has he tried to stir support for an Iranian invasion on CNN yet? Or Rosie O'Donnell? We all know the real reason too. He felt embarrassed by the embassy protests, wanted to distract from impeachment, and so he chose the most radical option on a list presented to him. The most radical option was put on the list to make the realistic options appear even more realistic.
  • Lastly, the nation had enjoyed relatively bloodless and quick interventions in the Balkans prior to invasions in Afghanistan and Iraq. Yet, those two failed rebuilds are fresh in our minds today. So while a portion of Trump's base is clamoring for over another SHOCK N AWE invasion, most everyone else isn't.

Eminently sensible.

But how does any of this really apply to Trump? Who will be the Generals or Congressmen to disobey Trump's orders? At what level of casualties would that happen? Say Iran orchestrated 3000 deaths like 9/11. Does that equate to wiping out a city of 20,000 in Iran? What would the response be? Would Trump have to confer with Congress about how much death to rain down on Iran? He has already announced his tweet is rule.

I think Iran know they are dealing with a madman in Trump and they will think hard about calling his bluff. It is only a few individuals who were assassinated after all. Or they could just say **** it, we'll suffer the consequences whatever they may be, and bomb a sporting event or large gathering.
 
Eminently sensible.

But how does any of this really apply to Trump? Who will be the Generals or Congressmen to disobey Trump's orders? At what level of casualties would that happen? Say Iran orchestrated 3000 deaths like 9/11. Does that equate to wiping out a city of 20,000 in Iran? What would the response be? Would Trump have to confer with Congress about how much death to rain down on Iran? He has already announced his tweet is rule.

I think Iran know they are dealing with a madman in Trump and they will think hard about calling his bluff. It is only a few individuals who were assassinated after all. Or they could just say **** it, we'll suffer the consequences whatever they may be, and bomb a sporting event or large gathering.



 
So the novel that I started writing about 12 years ago (had about 85 pages and let a handful or two here read it) was about terrorism in the U.S. The first attack is a car bomb as someone leaves for work in the morning and starts their vehicle. The next is another car bomb but in a crowded area for more victims. And they continue to escalate from there. Just seems like if idiot terrorists wanted to truly **** as a country it would be doing something like this. Disturbing our comfortable way of life and freedoms. Our peace. Putting fear in our hearts. Sort of like how the DC region probably felt during the sniper attacks.

If I was them, that’s how I would hit us. Not sure they’d ever be able to pull that off though as I’m sure virtually every Iranian here is a great human being (better than Trumpf) and it would have to be awfully tough for anyone with any such ideas in their minds from outside the country to get in right now.

But sadly, at some point, in 50-200 years, I think that’s where this country is headed.
 
Ugh just read what’s happening. Awful. With ******* at the helm, almost nothing good can come from this.
 
Iran has taken credit for firing rockets at two bases in Iraq that house U.S. troops...

we're going to war, bro!

sigh
 
A nasty war in Iran is exactly what the poor working class folk in a dying town full of empty factories wanted, Amiright? Stick it to the liberal elites by bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran!
 
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