friendsinmyhead
Member
Oh yes, perhaps I did misunderstand. However my questions are still unanswered why couldn't Davis have been all the things you purport young Hayward to be? Team player, Smart player, fit in socially.
what hayward could bring to the table
- Thread starter sportsnut1232
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Oh yes, perhaps I did misunderstand. However my questions are still unanswered why couldn't Davis have been all the things you purport young Hayward to be? Team player, Smart player, fit in socially.
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
The few UNC games I saw he was quite ineffective on the floor. Didn't seem to show the elite athleticism he was said to have. Didn't have near the impact on the game that I saw, say, Udoh have in the games I saw him play.
Darkwing answered a few of these in my absense (i have a job unfortunately that gets in the way of having conversations here at Jazzfanzz)
Davis COULD have those things you mention. However his attributes are not being touted as such, Haywards are. If Davis had all those attributes, and his athletic attributes, he'd be the #1 pick in the draft ala Magic Johnson. It is a common held belief that Davis is a bust or boom player. the reason is that he didn't show the attributes needed to be a lock for NBA stardom. So if he has GREAT athleticsm but is not a lock then what is his downside? The other aspects of the game - competive fire, BB IQ, lake of interest in general - I don't know exactcly, but its not because of his athletic skills.
So Hayward is nearly a 20/10 college kid who REPORTEDLY, RUMOURDLY has poor athletic skills. If so what the reason for his sucesss? He has the other attributes - BBIQ, team player, etc. Hayward's team's have won (or nearly) - HS, Under19AAU, NCAA. He's the best player on those teams. He has some general basketball skills that are not measured at the combine - that is a fact. Whether they translate to NBA is not certain. Jeff hornacek's excellence was 50% hand-eye and 50% BBIQ - there is NO DOUBT he was not gifted sprinter, jumper-type athelete. He was a GREAT NBA role player (one All star year i belive) and years of excellence and he fit in well in an orchestrated Jazz system. I think Hayward is the hope to become hornacek.
Also, to address the question of giving a passing grade for his shooting. First if the ONLY metric i took for shooting was his soph year 3pt - then we can draw that conclusion. However, looking at his freethrow percentage at 82% says he has good hand-eye coordination. comming into the NBA at 82 is pretty good. And by playing Bball full time with paid helpers 24/7 I belivee that number will go up. He will be a 85+% NBA guy and that is excellent. Also, we've seen video of him hitting college level 3's all over the place in a single game. I think it extremely rare that a player could do that an be a poorshooter or conversely that a poor shooter would ever be able to do that (AK, Brewer.) I realize that is at the college three but I think that helps to give some indicator. Also his freshman year he was ~45% or so which says he can shoot reasonably well. 29% his soph year is a flag, but not a single metric trump card on his abilities.
Finallly, he will fit in socially here for three reasons. 1. He is a team player (an assumption, but that is suposedly his strength) The jazz fans LOOOOOVE that. He's claimed to have a hard work ethic. The Jazz Fans LOOVE that. See the love for Paul Millsap as compared to Boozer. Millsap is probably a 3to1 favorite over Boozer, but boozer is the better player. Millsap is a team player "who brings his lunch pail every day" (boler) and he is loved here. And finally, which is targeting the point of your comment ultimately... is becuase he is white. That aspect, while a minor element is a real consideration for running a business where entertainment is concerned. Socially, he'll fit in becuase humans will, in general, gravitate to people who look like themselves. It so happens that the Utah Jazz fan population is quite white - as we all well know. Kyle Korver gets a cheer WHEN HE GOES TO THE SCORERS TABLE... I'm not saying this in any other context other that it is a reasonable business consideration. How many pink wesly mathews Jazz Jerseys were sold in Utah? I'm guessing Brad Pitt and Will Smith have a different demographic for their following. I don't find this an issue, a problem, anything other than a fact. And as such, i would plan my business with that as one element in mind.
The original question is about what Hayward would bring. I didn't itemize him comparatively to Ed Davis, Aldrich, babbit, patterson etc. I thnk Hayward brings these things.
Now what does Ed Davis bring in comparison
65% free throw shooting - not great; will probably get better in NBA but it is a metric
0% 3pt shooting - not needed really if he's a poer forward
Weighs 227 - hopefully he'd get bigger for NBA to be a power forward
Standing reach is 9'0" (2.5" more than Milsap) (vertical is 2" better than Millsap)
So he's not seeming tremendously advantaged at a position we have a good player (Millsap will be even better this comming year in my opinon)
And Also a guy who has all the athleticsm but hasn't carried his team anywhere. I think this is the BIG risk (these types are common 'busts')
I would not have drafted Ed Davis if I was KOC.
I would have drafted Patterson who was touted to be "hard working, most mature, team player" and i think he would have fit in with Utah Jazz socially as well. Even though he is a Millsap clone (physically, socially), i think he was the most likely to remain in the NBA with and be a "good" or better player. (Aldrich will likely remain in the NBA but will be not quite as good or upside as Patterson.) And thus he would have been tradeable asset. (I can't imagine Boozer is coming back.)
InGameStrategy
Well-Known Member
The interesting thing is that Utah probably drafted Hayward in order to avoid having to pay for Korver. Drafting Patterson (and trading Millsap) would've saved about as much money--and would've given Utah a bit more height for their borderline-starter PF. What is a small plus for Hayward is that he might be able to start contributing more quickly than a Patterson would; i.e., before Deron's contract is up.