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What if we would have not made the D-Will trade?

Basketball_Romantic23

Basketball_Romantic23

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Just imagine had we not made the D-will trade. we would have no favors, no kanter, no harris, and possibly even no burks becasue maybe we would have been better with D-will and gotten stuck with one of the morris twins!! also we would have no golden state pick this next draft and by the time the lockout ends, we'd have no D-will!!! holy cow... i think that deal shaved off a good 3 to 4 years of rebuilding and sucking it up night in and night out!!!!

I'm thinking KOC deserves everyone's respect for that one deal alone. sure does help me forget about drafting Snyder, lopez over parker, Almond, and a few others. :)
 
Basketball_Romantic23 said:
Just imagine had we not made the D-will trade. we would have no favors, no kanter, no harris, and possibly even no burks becasue maybe we would have been better with D-will and gotten stuck with one of the morris twins!! also we would have no golden state pick this next draft and by the time the lockout ends, we'd have no D-will!!! holy cow... i think that deal shaved off a good 3 to 4 years of rebuilding and sucking it up night in and night out!!!!

I'm thinking KOC deserves everyone's respect for that one deal alone. sure does help me forget about drafting Snyder, lopez over parker, Almond, and a few others. :)
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Not a chance we would have been better with DWill. With DWill, the team had already started the downward spiral. Willaims wasn't running the plays and the team was in disarray. Williams probably shouldn't have even played the lsat month with the injured wrist. But he wanted to impress the new coach and owner and thank them for getting him the hell out of Dodge. I watched almost all the NJ games after the trade (cheering for losses, not for DWill). NJ actually played better most of the time when DWill was on the bench. He had a couple of big games, but generally hurt the team with his poor shooting and weak passing due to the injury.

But yeah, I agree on the joy over what we got. Sure it's only potential at this stage, but I think just Favors and Harris was probably fair value. Of course, their pick was projected to be around #8, not #3, so we got lucky. We also have to give a big THANKS to the Knicks. After NY made the big move for Carmelo, the other "soon-to-be" NY franchise had to make some kind of trade. And they overpaid to make a big splash.
 
question, with all this talk of voiding contracts with the decertification... do we get to keep our players or is it going to be a free agent free for all when this is all over?
 
The rights will likely still belong to the team, who knows what the contract situation will be.






This seriously sucks. I am beginning to really hate the NBA and all NBA players.
 
I'm not a legal expert, but I don't think the NBA will be able to void the contracts. not unless teams declare bankruptcy and fold. I just don't see the courts setting that kind of precedent.
 
Basketball_Romantic23 said:
Just imagine had we not made the D-will trade. we would have no favors, no kanter, no harris, and possibly even no burks becasue maybe we would have been better with D-will and gotten stuck with one of the morris twins!! also we would have no golden state pick this next draft and by the time the lockout ends, we'd have no D-will!!! holy cow... i think that deal shaved off a good 3 to 4 years of rebuilding and sucking it up night in and night out!!!!

I'm thinking KOC deserves everyone's respect for that one deal alone. sure does help me forget about drafting Snyder, lopez over parker, Almond, and a few others. :)
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If we haven't done that trade, we would basically suck right now. And of course KOC deserves respect.
BTW forget about the lopez over parker thing, how many people would have guess he will be better than him at that time?
 
DWill seemed to want out of Utah; never really would commit to be a Jazzman. As events evolved and DWill's contract years shrinking, KoC got a GREAT deal for him and pulled the trigger.

We were plain unlucky with Lopez.
 
official KOC' respect tread.

Now we have quite good front line potential, can you imagine us with D-will looking out team and lock out.
 
Yep, O'Connor is genius at trading and drafting in second round but it is mystery why he is so horrible when it comes to drafting in first round ( especially in lottery)
 
AKMVP said:
Yep, O'Connor is genius at trading and drafting in second round but it is mystery why he is so horrible when it comes to drafting in first round ( especially in lottery)
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he has missed on some first round picks, but come on now, it's not that bad! You sound as though KOC is the only GM that makes bad selections in the 1'st round. Haywards looking good D-Will, Eric Maynor would've been a great backup if we hadn't traded him, Brewer was a bit of a disappointment but he was a starter and wasn't bad, AK was a great pick at #24, Ostertag at I believe #28, although I'm not 100% sure KOC was gm when he was drafted.

The bad: Humphries and of course the Jail bird, Lopez (albeit his career was derailed by injury, and I know he could've drafted Parker, but he may have been pressured into Lopez) and I forget his name, bt the C out of Stanford.

I may have missed some names on both sides, but my point is KOC is no worse than other GMs in the first and better than most in the second round.
 
AKMVP said:
Yep, O'Connor is genius at trading and drafting in second round but it is mystery why he is so horrible when it comes to drafting in first round ( especially in lottery)
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Wouldn't say horrible. Its not like the Jazz became top 8 team in the NBA for a few years through lucrative Free-Agent signings. I guess you could attribute our successes from the trade for the 3rd pick, but he still had to choose Dwill ahead of other players; and to this day, I still think he made the correct choice. Trade for Korver and signing Boozer also made us powerful, as you stated but lets not say he's AWFUL in the first round. People RARELY draft studs in the 10th-20 picks, which is what the jazz got for the most of 2000-2010. Plus, drafting Gordon Hayward busts your myth as well, seeing as he and Paul George were easily better than 99% of the players that we all wanted to draft instead. Lets not forget that he also drafted the "MVP", that you've dedicated your username to, in the first round.
 
Thee jazz fan said:
he has missed on some first round picks, but come on now, it's not that bad! You sound as though KOC is the only GM that makes bad selections in the 1'st round. Haywards looking good D-Will, Eric Maynor would've been a great backup if we hadn't traded him, Brewer was a bit of a disappointment but he was a starter and wasn't bad, AK was a great pick at #24, Ostertag at I believe #28, although I'm not 100% sure KOC was gm when he was drafted.

The bad: Humphries and of course the Jail bird, Lopez (albeit his career was derailed by injury, and I know he could've drafted Parker, but he may have been pressured into Lopez) and I forget his name, bt the C out of Stanford.

I may have missed some names on both sides, but my point is KOC is no worse than other GMs in the first and better than most in the second round.
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AK was drafted by Layden not O'Connor. Dwill over C.Paul to me was and is bad mistake. Hayward has shown nothing yet to say he was worth 9th pick. Humphries and Snyder when you could have had big Al and Josh Smith? Horrible!!! Lopez over Parker or Arenas? Ridiculous! Borchardt over Boozer? Crap! and so on. anybody remembers Almond, Pavlovic?.. Why none of O'Connor's first round picks in 2000-2009 are with Jazz anymore if he drafted good??? Only Hayward so far on rookie deal. And I think Kanter was bad pick as well but that one is yet to be seen.
 
dalamon said:
Plus, drafting Gordon Hayward busts your myth as well, seeing as he and Paul George were easily better than 99% of the players that we all wanted to draft instead. Lets not forget that he also drafted the "MVP", that you've dedicated your username to, in the first round.
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Why sudden love for Hayward? What has he done so far? Few good games at the end of the season when nothing mattered?? His rookie season stats are way worse then some other players drafted behind him like Ed Davis, L.Fields or P.Patterson for example...
And you guys have very short memory, O'Connors first drafted pick for Jazz was DeShawn Stevenson. AK was drafted by Layden.
 
Just imagine how bad NJ will look in this trade if the season is cancelled. He would have only played a 1/2 a season for the Nets. That is unless the Russian Mafia is able to threaten him into resigning with that horrid club.

In my best Russian accent, "But look Deron, vee are building large bewlding in Brooklyn. It vill be very niiiiice."

I'm seriously amazed at how good of a trade that was. Imagine what we'd be saying with DWill going to free agency and no Derrick Favors, Harris, Kanter, and no future 1st rounder.......yikes.

Thank you KOC.
 
AKMVP said:
AK was drafted by Layden not O'Connor. Dwill over C.Paul to me was and is bad mistake. Hayward has shown nothing yet to say he was worth 9th pick. Humphries and Snyder when you could have had big Al and Josh Smith? Horrible!!! Lopez over Parker or Arenas? Ridiculous! Borchardt over Boozer? Crap! and so on. anybody remembers Almond, Pavlovic?.. Why none of O'Connor's first round picks in 2000-2009 are with Jazz anymore if he drafted good??? Only Hayward so far on rookie deal. And I think Kanter was bad pick as well but that one is yet to be seen.
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How many other teams passed on Boozer? And go back to what the draft experts said after we snagged Humphries and Snyder. A's from almost every one of them. Yes, KOC has made some mistakes. But if the team was run like we think it was, I;d say you have to place an equal share of the blame on Sloan.

For every player you list, I can provide you with a reason the Jazzz took that player. For example,

Borchardt: high risk/high reward. Jazz needed a big man to take one final run at a championship with Malone, Stockton and Hornacek. Swing and a miss, but it was a decent shot.


Almond: Jazz had 0 proven SG's. Almond was a helluva shooter/scorer. And all his interviews pointed to a guy with a great attitude. Who woulda thunk the guy would turn into the biggest black hole in the universe.


Snyder/Humphries: already cited all the draft experts. Humphries was a top prospect at PF with a NBA-ready body, but lacking experience (a bit like Favors? Kanter?). Snyder was a highly-regarded player with amazing athletic ability. Jazz were hoping he could be a Blue Edwards type player. He turned out being a smaller version of Luther Wright. It's likely KOC, Sloan and Greg did not want to go the HS route again after their experience with DeShawn. I think a small market plays into that. They see a player who will require 3-5 yrs. development and know he'll be at the end of his contract, likely wanting to leave SLC, just as he's ready to contribute.

And how is DWill over CP a bad mistake? CP wants out of NO just like Deron wanted out of Utah. DWill was a more durable player. and he led the Jazz to the WC finals. What was CP's record with NO? What did he do head-to-head against Williams? At best, I'd say it's a wash. They're both fantastic PG's despite completely different styles. Besides, if you read the rumor mill after the draft, it was widely claimed CP was KOC's favorite, but Sloan wanted Deron. I even think that was behind Jerry's retirement, knowing Deron was "his guy" who had turned against him.
 
GlassEater said:
Yes, KOC has made some mistakes. But if the team was run like we think it was, I;d say you have to place an equal share of the blame on Sloan.
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I agree that Sloan had a lot to do when it came to drafting so good point about it. Lets see how Kanter will turn out as this year Sloan had nothing to do with it... unless it was Ty who fell in love after he could not back him down in his Chicago workout, lol.
 
AKMVP said:
Why sudden love for Hayward? What has he done so far? Few good games at the end of the season when nothing mattered?? His rookie season stats are way worse then some other players drafted behind him like Ed Davis, L.Fields or P.Patterson for example...
And you guys have very short memory, O'Connors first drafted pick for Jazz was DeShawn Stevenson. AK was drafted by Layden.
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LOL. we shouldve drafted Ed Davis? So instead of 6 players (7 if you include AK) that could split time playing Power Forward, we would be better off with an 8th?? Landry Fields is better than Hayward?? Its funny how Fields played nearly DOUBLE the amount that Hayward did over the course of the season (Hayward averaged 17, Fields averaged 31 mpg) and yet he ONLY averaged 4 more points per game. Im not even going to address you mentioning Patrick Patterson, for the sake of my sanity. You are easily one of the most incompetent of posters on this forum.
 
dalamon said:
LOL. we shouldve drafted Ed Davis? So instead of 6 players (7 if you include AK) that could split time playing Power Forward, we would be better off with an 8th?? Landry Fields is better than Hayward?? Its funny how Fields played nearly DOUBLE the amount that Hayward did over the course of the season (Hayward averaged 17, Fields averaged 31 mpg) and yet he ONLY averaged 4 more points per game. Im not even going to address you mentioning Patrick Patterson, for the sake of my sanity. You are easily one of the most incompetent of posters on this forum.
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Wait, lets get some facts straight:

1: If we would drafted Davis last year instead of Hayward it would be only Millsap, AK, Big Al and Davis who could have played reasonable minutes at PF. Unless you count Okur but he did not play many minutes last season. Evans did some to but that was very little.
Obviously trade for Favors and New Jersey pick which turned into Kanter may not have happened in that scenario.

2.Incompetent? lol, I am judging by stats without homer glasses. You obviously think Hayward is some kind of a superstar waiting to happen - and sorry to burst your bubble but he is not.

3. Patterson played less time and had more pts and more rebounds then Hayward for your information!

4. What about Jordan Crawford? Gary Neal? Paul George? want to argue that Hayward did better then them as well? lol.... Hayward finished last season in 25th place among all rookies in efficiency rankings - not impressive at all! https://www.nba.com/statistics/play...GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=0&splitDD=All Teams

Just friendly advice, before calling others incompetent take your homer glasses off first.
 
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