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What type of candidate can beat Trump?

Gameface said:
I'm sure the people reading this who have strong feelings against illegal immigration would answer that the cheapest alternative is to leave these illegals to their own fate, hopefully on the other side of a border barrier.

Why do you make liberal arguments to conservatives?

The message is just not going in.
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First, I’m not trying to convince conservatives of anything. I know they’ll repeat the same Fox News Breitbart nonsense no matter the facts presented to them. Haven’t we seen enough of that over the past few years? Trump could claim the sky is green, not blue, and 35 percent of this country would debate you to death over it.

Second, what I say is just fact. Our country demands cheap products. You don’t get cheap products by hiring an american teenager and paying them $15 to pick grapes or build a home. Especially since they’ll be on their phones for 8 of the 12 hours they’re supposed to work.

Our country’s capitalism is dependent on immigration and low skill labor. The least we can do is provide them with health care opportunities. Especially since the alternative is using the ER, much more expensive.

Pandering to conservatives who think a 3,000 mile long Berlin Wall across our border, massive roundups of millions of productive workers (some even work on trump’s resorts), and forcing people to receive health care at the ER, will fix everything while maintaining the low costs of services and products is asking me to post stupidity.
 
The Thriller said:
Youre not a Marianne Williamson person? ;)

I follow this stuff closely and had no idea who the hell she was.
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I just watched a few of her videos. I'm from the western part of the U.S.. I have a hard time really identifying with that aristocratic accent. I know that's superficial, but it's true. And the fact that she shares that with Roosevelt doesn't help. I feel like he crippled the potential of a growing nation significantly with his new deal. I'd have to hear a lot more before I could get in her camp.

I'm still on the Warren train.
 
The Thriller said:
First, I’m not trying to convince conservatives of anything. I know they’ll repeat the same Fox News Breitbart nonsense no matter the facts presented to them. Haven’t we seen enough of that over the past few years? Trump could claim the sky is green, not blue, and 35 percent of this country would debate you to death over it.

Second, what I say is just fact. Our country demands cheap products. You don’t get cheap products by hiring an american teenager and paying them $15 to pick grapes or build a home. Especially since they’ll be on their phones for 8 of the 12 hours they’re supposed to work.

Our country’s capitalism is dependent on immigration and low skill labor. The least we can do is provide them with health care opportunities. Especially since the alternative is using the ER, much more expensive.

Pandering to conservatives who think a 3,000 mile long Berlin Wall across our border, massive roundups of millions of productive workers (some even work on trump’s resorts), and forcing people to receive health care at the ER, will fix everything while maintaining the low costs of services and products is asking me to post stupidity.
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I have a touch of experience here, fyi.

Been using H2A workers for around 15-20 years. They're provided with a government required wage (we literally are not allowed to pay over that amount), housing (inspected every year), food, transportation, and we pay for any medical issues they incur while here. I can promise you, that all costs more than $15/hr. The problem is not the cost, the problem is finding the amount of labor. I cannot find enough local labor. And we're not just taking these guys to the ER and going "good luck!"

The problems arise when people come over illegally. Employers unfortunately don't have to follow the rules then. Would be better if we tighten the border, and use the H2A program more. That makes sense, right? That's why when Goodlatte was talking about limiting H2A I went to DC and talked to our senators/congressman.
 
RandyForRubio said:
I have a touch of experience here, fyi.

Been using H2A workers for around 15-20 years. They're provided with a government required wage (we literally are not allowed to pay over that amount), housing (inspected every year), food, transportation, and we pay for any medical issues they incur while here. I can promise you, that all costs more than $15/hr. The problem is not the cost, the problem is finding the amount of labor. I cannot find enough local labor. And we're not just taking these guys to the ER and going "good luck!"

The problems arise when people come over illegally. Employers unfortunately don't have to follow the rules then. Would be better if we tighten the border, and use the H2A program more. That makes sense, right? That's why when Goodlatte was talking about limiting H2A I went to DC and talked to our senators/congressman.
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Your last paragraphs where I am. Control the border, not a wall, and open immigration more. Make it feasible for people. If they realistically can get in the flow of illegal immigration ebbs and there are more people here who aren’t forced into the shadows. More integration and protection.
 
Heathme said:
The questions that the moderators forgot to ask...

https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/n...rassing-questions-nbcs-moderators-never-asked
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Yeah, let’s spend a ton of time debating whether Booker’s friend at 5 years old, T-Bone, actually existed or was imaginary, the percentage of Warren’s blood is Native American, and rehash Biden’s hugs rather than plans and policies for the country. Totally what the primary and country, should be focusing on.

And if they did that I’m sure you’d give them credit rather than attacking them for debating such frivolous things and not plans and Policies.

Sigh

Frankly, I’m getting tired of republicans whining.

Sorry, but it’s the Dem primary. Shut up. You wouldnt vote for any of these candidates even if they walked on water, turned water to wine, and raised your family members from the dead. Focus on fixing your own damn party. Try purging the numerous white supremacists and child molesters and rapists like Roy Moore and Donald trump from your party.
 
The Thriller said:
Yeah, let’s spend a ton of time debating whether Booker’s friend at 5 years old, T-Bone, actually existed or was imaginary, the percentage of Warren’s blood is Native American, and rehash Biden’s hugs rather than plans and policies for the country. Totally what the primary and country, should be focusing on.

And if they did that I’m sure you’d give them credit rather than attacking them for debating such frivolous things and not plans and Policies.

Sigh

Frankly, I’m getting tired of republicans whining.

Sorry, but it’s the Dem primary. Shut up. You wouldnt vote for any of these candidates even if they walked on water, turned water to wine, and raised your family members from the dead. Focus on fixing your own damn party. Try purging the numerous white supremacists and child molesters and rapists like Roy Moore and Donald trump from your party.
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With all due respect, who has actually said they want Roy Moore? Cause I haven't seen that at all.
 
RandyForRubio said:
Idk. To me saying no deportation, and no detaining means there's not much preventing going on. That's just how it sounds to me.
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Changing the illegal crossing of a border from a criminal to a civil offense still allows for deportation.

In fact, being in America illegally is itself a civil offense, and we deport lots of people for it.
 
Carbon13 said:
I think Warren is becoming very interesting. She has always had the most well thought out campaign but really fumbled her opening. It’s good to see smart political people begin to take notice and she is gaining steam.
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She's sharp, but her economic policies and proposed social programs are going to be a non-starter for most people.
 
I don't see Warren beating Trump. She just won't win the popularity contest. She's not cool enough under pressure. Harris on the other hand will probably have some moments vs. Trump similar to her moment with Biden, which drew blood and now he's bleeding out. And with Harris being a woman and black you just know Trump is going to slip up and make a racist remark in addition to his expected misogynist ones. She won't be afraid to get dirty with him and he'll lose his cool.
 
I think Harris should run a moderate campaign once she gets the nomination and her hedging on federal healthcare was a smart move.
 
str8line said:
I think Harris should run a moderate campaign once she gets the nomination and her hedging on federal healthcare was a smart move.
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Harris’s t-shirt campaign is a bit low imo. Too Trumpy and petty. I’ll still vote for her if she’s the nominee but I do feel this lowers her campaign into the gutter a bit.

 
The Thriller said:
Harris’s t-shirt campaign is a bit low imo. Too Trumpy and petty. I’ll still vote for her if she’s the nominee but I do feel this lowers her campaign into the gutter a bit.

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What's the context with the t-shirt? Why is it low or petty or trumpy?

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Catchall said:
She's sharp, but her economic policies and proposed social programs are going to be a non-starter for most people.
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I think you have it wrong. The last election and rash of elections in Europe and South America have been won by conservative demagogues. Promising strong borders and trade deals (tariffs). This is because we’ve reached a breaking point caused by the side effects of income inequality, namely: stagnating wages and low job satisfaction. As a result working class people are tired of the status quo and prone to voting for people who promise change. This same energy brought Obama to power and later trump. There has rarely been a liberal anti-establishment alternative in each of these elections, but the most clear cut example in which there was, was the UK general election between Jeremy Corbyns labor party and Theresa May’s Brexit conservatives in 2017. If you remember, May started the general election with the intent of gaining more seats and building her coalition. Nobody gave Corbyns labor party a chance - Corbyn was essentially a joke. And what happened? Corbyns labor party didn’t only not lose seats, nor hold ground, but the labor party *gained* seats. The world was stunned. Why did this happen? Because when working people that are struggling are presented with a liberal alternative that addresses income inequality, wage stagnation, and low job satisfaction, they will vote liberal. The democrats just need to give them that option rather than block it like they did last election and run on a premise of “America is already great” it is self evidently not, right now.
 
fishonjazz said:
What's the context with the t-shirt? Why is it low or petty or trumpy?

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It’s from the 2nd night of the debate where she insinuated that Biden was a racist and that through his legislative decisions, she as a girl, suffered when it came to school segregation.

It was actually a good moment for her. And contrary to what some Never Trumpers say, good to expose Biden for. I’d rather dig up these skeletons now and see how it plays out than have it sink him in October of 2020 in the general. I’d like to see him explain how things were different in the 70s and 80s and that he’s since learned from his mistakes. That’s how I’d advise him. He was in Congress for 30+ years and was known as being a pretty moderate guy. His record does have some blemishes. Better to explain how he’s learned from the past than to deny them and pretend to be Jesus, MLK, and Gandhi combined.

But her campaign exploiting that moment to sell t-shirts is immature, petty, and too trumpy for me. It’s a desperate move imo, as if her campaign isn’t expecting many more spotlight moments.

I want a leader, not a bully. That’s just me. It doesn’t sink her campaign. I still think she’s in the top 5 democratic candidates. It just lessens her shine a bit for me. Again, I like Warren and Pete. They don’t seem to get caught up in **** throwing.
 
gandalfe said:
During the debate, she was talking about bussing to school, and desegregation, and said, "That little girl was me." This is, presumably, a picture of her.

I think it lessens the moment she had to have these shirts on sale the next day.
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What does bussing to school have to do with? Don't tons of kids from different ethnicities, backgrounds, and financial situations ride buses to school?

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