Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
No, it's called having a core starting unit and making some difficult decisions to offload overpriced veterans so you can keep the young core together.
What would Houston Give up for Al? And what would we want?
- Thread starter blackham9258
- Start date
Scorpjazz
Well-Known Member
This, and I wont have a problem with it.
Scorpjazz
Well-Known Member
I agree totally. Keep Jeff and extend him, trade Sap while his value is over inflated.
blackham9258
Member
Despite the Jr High comments by NAOS who is over the top for Millsap, I will make the point again: The league sees Millsap as Middle of the road starter/tweener PF. Humphries is overpaid by the only team in the league stupid enough to overpay as much as they are there entire roster. Think about their starting roster: JJ is the most overpaid guy in the league and is overpaid by at least $8M per year. Humphries even on a 2 year deal is overpaid by $4-$5M per year. Lopez, please... by at least $5M per year, and Wallace by at least 2 years and $3M per year.
That said deals like Kaman for 1/$8M, Illyasova 5/$40M a bit overpaid, Bass is the closest to Millsap and he got 3/$20M.
I just don't think you want to pay your backup PF more than $7-$8M per.
As far as Al Jefferson, he isn't near the defensive stopper that Asik is (who was overpaid because he was a restricted FA by at least $2.5-$3M per year), and he doesn't have near the upside and youth of McGee who has the potential to be a top 5 defensive center with offensive upside.
Al Jefferson is who he is: An inefficient offensive player in a league moving toward efficient players, and perhaps a top 5 worst post defenders in the league. He will not command more than a 3 year deal from any suitor, and will not get more than $10M per. I can only see the following teams being interest this year or next in a deal of this size: Milwakee, Houston (if they strike out everywhere else), Utah, NOLA, Orlando. The rest either have their big men under contract or their style doesn't fit his play.
Al's market just won't be that Large.
The same can be said of Millsap on the years and dollars side although every team in the league would offer the full MLE if they have it, and many would offer up to $7M per if they have the cap space but Millsap as a "TWEENER" undersized PF who doesn't score off of post ups is not a player under the new CBA you want to sign for lots of years at big dollars because he is what he is:
A complimentary piece to a championship team, but if he is your best 1-2 player you are not a contender. PERIOD!!!
That said deals like Kaman for 1/$8M, Illyasova 5/$40M a bit overpaid, Bass is the closest to Millsap and he got 3/$20M.
I just don't think you want to pay your backup PF more than $7-$8M per.
As far as Al Jefferson, he isn't near the defensive stopper that Asik is (who was overpaid because he was a restricted FA by at least $2.5-$3M per year), and he doesn't have near the upside and youth of McGee who has the potential to be a top 5 defensive center with offensive upside.
Al Jefferson is who he is: An inefficient offensive player in a league moving toward efficient players, and perhaps a top 5 worst post defenders in the league. He will not command more than a 3 year deal from any suitor, and will not get more than $10M per. I can only see the following teams being interest this year or next in a deal of this size: Milwakee, Houston (if they strike out everywhere else), Utah, NOLA, Orlando. The rest either have their big men under contract or their style doesn't fit his play.
Al's market just won't be that Large.
The same can be said of Millsap on the years and dollars side although every team in the league would offer the full MLE if they have it, and many would offer up to $7M per if they have the cap space but Millsap as a "TWEENER" undersized PF who doesn't score off of post ups is not a player under the new CBA you want to sign for lots of years at big dollars because he is what he is:
A complimentary piece to a championship team, but if he is your best 1-2 player you are not a contender. PERIOD!!!
Chargers Jazz Angels
Well-Known Member
Great post blackham. I understand all of your points you supported them well. The sad reality is big me are over paid. I agree your back up 4 should not make 10 mil a year but if your back up 4 is also always in contention for 6th man of the year 10 mil becomes a pill a little easier to swallow.
Jefferson is also going tobe over paid I would say the 12 to 14 mil range. It is not easy to find 20 and 10 players. If he is paired next to a defensive big then his defensive woes become a lot less. Favors Jefferson might be a good combo. Although I think it would stunt favors offensive growth. Charlotte would alsobe a good destination. Biyombo Jefferson makes a ton of sense.
If Jefferson can learn to pass out of the post to cutters or to the own mn when the double comes he will be very dangerous in half court sets.
As for the heading the player I want the most from Houston would be Terrance jones. My understanding is that Houston wants millsap. I would do the millsap for jones. Maybe other considerations. What I am reading is white is now being considered a 4 that can play the 3. Houston is loaded with 4s. Jefferson asik would be an interesting pairing a new twin towers in Houston.
I love the idea of Houston wanting Big Al and being to give up something of value for him. That said, it's all very much a moot point until the Dwight Howard situation is resolved. I don't see Houston giving up on their pursuit of Howard or Bynum until Howard is actually traded elsewhere or the trade deadline is rapidly approaching with no deal in sight.
blackham9258
Member
We will have to agree to disagree. I just think the bigs that are getting the money are guys that have upside, extreme size and length or are high value defenders: Asik, McGee, Hibbert. The other thing to remember about all three of those guys and including Deandre Jordan who also got $11Mper, is one immutable fact: Restricted Free Agency! Restricted free agency cause guys to get overpaid by usually $3M per year.
Neither Millsap or Jefferson will be restricted free agents at the end of the year so their is no need to overpay now.
I think Jefferson will be the guy who is more likely to want to resign during next summers resigning period if Paul isn't resigned during this pre-season. Why? Because Paul I think will feel slighted by not getting his 4/$40M payday and then being relagated to the bench. I worry that Paul will leave the Jazz the same way Donyell Marshall did... Donyell wanted a huge contract for 4-6 years at $10M per years but the Jazz only offered 3/$25M so to spite the Jazz he left for a 3/$15M to go to Chicago... take that Jazz! Anyway it worked out well for the Jazz as we picked up Harpring for less money and more years 4/$16M and he ended up being the much better player.
Now I don't see us wanting Millsap to go, I am also not suggesting that this is how it will play out but I sense that this is a very real likelihood. My most likely scenarios go a little like this:
1) Resign Millsap for something higher than we want but less than he wants: 3/$27M
2) Resign Millsap for 3/$24M next summer
3) See him walk for 3/$20M next summer to some place where he can start.
4) Trade him at the deadline because we have either reupped Jefferson or plan on reupping Jefferson... Hopefully to Houston for Montejunas and a pick.
Neither Millsap or Jefferson will be restricted free agents at the end of the year so their is no need to overpay now.
I think Jefferson will be the guy who is more likely to want to resign during next summers resigning period if Paul isn't resigned during this pre-season. Why? Because Paul I think will feel slighted by not getting his 4/$40M payday and then being relagated to the bench. I worry that Paul will leave the Jazz the same way Donyell Marshall did... Donyell wanted a huge contract for 4-6 years at $10M per years but the Jazz only offered 3/$25M so to spite the Jazz he left for a 3/$15M to go to Chicago... take that Jazz! Anyway it worked out well for the Jazz as we picked up Harpring for less money and more years 4/$16M and he ended up being the much better player.
Now I don't see us wanting Millsap to go, I am also not suggesting that this is how it will play out but I sense that this is a very real likelihood. My most likely scenarios go a little like this:
1) Resign Millsap for something higher than we want but less than he wants: 3/$27M
2) Resign Millsap for 3/$24M next summer
3) See him walk for 3/$20M next summer to some place where he can start.
4) Trade him at the deadline because we have either reupped Jefferson or plan on reupping Jefferson... Hopefully to Houston for Montejunas and a pick.
If we were to trade Millsap or Al to Houston:
Don't want Motejunas. He is going to be a poor man's Bargani. No defense, no rebounds and jumpers that sometimes go in.
I think Terrence Jones will be a good player in the league. So I would be okay with him and a 2nd round pick or something.
I don't really want Royce White either. He can pass at elite level and he can handle the ball. But he really, really cannot shoot and struggles to score inside at length. He is a fun player but I don't see the role he plays on a winning team.
I don't think we could get Jeremy Lamb but he looks like a great natural scorer/shooter.
No Marcus Morris- he is terrible.
Patrick Patterson is an okay player. But we would need a 1st round pick or something too.
This.
Gyp Rosetti
Banned
I'm pretty sure no one gave a **** the first time.
I am not in favor of getting rid of Jefferson and Houston doesn't have pieces that excite me too much, but if trade were with Houston it would almost certainly have to include Kevin Martin.
I would consider Jefferson and Watson/Tinsley for Martin, one of Houston's young bigs (Patterson, Morris, Harrelson, etc.) and their Dallas via Lakers protected 1st rounder.
I would consider Jefferson and Watson/Tinsley for Martin, one of Houston's young bigs (Patterson, Morris, Harrelson, etc.) and their Dallas via Lakers protected 1st rounder.
theNBAnerd
Well-Known Member
to those who think that the league views millsap as a "middle of the road tweener forward" or whatever, i'm just wondering who you spoke with to get an understanding of how the entire league felt.
i've seen scouting stuff on paul that makes him sound like the jazz's star player (probably because everybody looking closely can tell he's the jazz's best player) and a lot of literature over the past two seasons has indicated that he could/should have been an all-star.
as to the OP, i haven't seen any indication whatsoever that houston is interested in al. and even if they are interested, they're not likely to start looking at plan Bs, Cs and Ds until they are 100% locked out of the dwight race.
i've seen scouting stuff on paul that makes him sound like the jazz's star player (probably because everybody looking closely can tell he's the jazz's best player) and a lot of literature over the past two seasons has indicated that he could/should have been an all-star.
as to the OP, i haven't seen any indication whatsoever that houston is interested in al. and even if they are interested, they're not likely to start looking at plan Bs, Cs and Ds until they are 100% locked out of the dwight race.
Millsap is a good player, but he has never been deserving as to be an All-Star. He might get in one year due to an injury to a star PF, but he will always be on the edge of real contention for a spot.
And with the way things look now, that won't be until the last minutes before the trade deadline.
theNBAnerd
Well-Known Member
ok, but he probably has a better case than several guys who HAVE been all-stars in the last couple of years.