Why is someone a bonehead for expressing their constitutional rights? I think there are smart thoughtful players in all leagues and then there are also players who have no clue and don't care about social issues. Lebron has already spoken out about what has been going on with Martin incident in FLorida.
What would you do if one of the Jazz sits or kneels for the National Anthem ??
- Thread starter tleikheen
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Why is someone a bonehead for expressing their constitutional rights? I think there are smart thoughtful players in all leagues and then there are also players who have no clue and don't care about social issues. Lebron has already spoken out about what has been going on with Martin incident in FLorida.
Great points. You are completely right and I don't think the protest has been disrespectful, and I have not been offended personally by the protests. So let me clearly clarify and correct.
What I do believe is that the NBA players could protest in a way that is more effective and not as likely to offend offend cops/ military/ others. And I believe that Colin Kap is not the best spokesperson for the cause, by many accounts not the greatest guy or teammate, not highly respected through the league, and his other actions such as wearing cop-pig socks are offensive.
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They are not boneheaded for expressing their rights. Some folks are sometimes boneheaded in what they express or how they express it. I'm not personally offended by the anthem protest. However, I have a good friend whose father is a retired Colonel who died a few years ago. For her the anthem brings back memories of her Dad and has special meaning, so I understand why she is offended by CK.
I can try to understand what is like to be a minority, but there is no way to understand (I am in a mixed race family, but that only helps a little). So I support right to protest and can only hope they do it in a way to improve our society and address the obvious problems.
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akirac73
Well-Known Member
Not sure, but I just went to a World Cup of Hockey game last night (Canada vs. Russia). Game was played in the US (Pittsburgh). They played both the Russian and Canadian national anthems to start the game and everyone stood during both anthems. So I guess it's just common courtesy to stand during any national anthem regardless if it's your own country or not...
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
CK is greatly misunderstood. This is a guy that got criticized for having tattoos and not looking like Payton Manning. He is the perfect person to lead this cause because he was the one that cared enough to do something. Now others are following him and I'm sure even more will follow. At some point people in power will have no choice but to listen to Kaep and others. Minorities are finally being heard. As far as the socks go, I don't give a damn!! Show me a completely squeaky clean person that should lead this protest. As far as I'm concerned there are cops and plenty of them that go unchecked that deserve the title of pig. To illustrate my point, many years ago I went to I was doing door to door sales in New York. I talked to a former cop, couldn't have been more then 35 yrs old. He was he told me he quit the force because it was corrupt. He said at least half the force was taking money from drug dealers so they wouldn't be harassed by those cops. I believe there are more good cops then bad, but not even all the good cops in this country can erase what these bad cops are doing or done.
I'm sorry if this feels insensitive. I'm sorry your friend had to loose her dad like that, but her dad and others died so we could be free, and feel free to speak out and protest in a non-violent way. Do u think minority families who have lost loved ones at the hands of bad cops that aren't punished for their crimes care that she is put off by what Kaep is doing? Because Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on a bus to a white man. This act inspired change that made it unconstitutional for anyone of any color to have to give up their seat. Kaep refusing to stand for the anthem could cause great change and make all truely equal. Maybe 50 years from now we will have more black owners or coaches. Maybe we won't even need title 9 maybe we won't have bad cops on the street anymore because there will be and forced penalties for taking a life needlessly. So, my point is if Kaep needs to upset a few people to make my home a better place for all I and many others don't care.
I would also point out that Kaep has said he's not protesting the country or the military he's even reached out to vets that have reached out to him and taken time to listen to him and improve his protest which is why he kneels instead of sitting. Feathers need to be ruffled to cause change to happen. What LBJ Wade cp3 and others are doing is nice but it won't force anyone to do anything about it. People need to be frustrated and hurt to be motivated to do something. I saw what those NBA players did but it did nothing to change how I felt about this country. After I was originally put off by Kaep's protest I wanted to understand why he did what he did, and realized just how big a problem we are having with cops killing black people and just how they aren't treated the same as the rest of us.
It is not boneheaded to express your constitutional rights.
It is boneheaded to protest using hate and disrespect. That is what CK is doing and that is why we should ALL see this as a wrong method of protest. Wearing socks that have a prejudice statement on them is hateful. And it is EXACTLY what CK is protesting. That is boneheaded. What if his socks said Women are Pigs? Blacks are Pigs? Jazzfanz are pigs? Is that ok? Is that a protest? All cops are not pigs. Some cops are racist. Some women are racist. Some whites are racist. Some _______ are racist. The very farthest extension of this hate protest is the sniper killing of cops.
Also, while not as clear cut, it is wrong that he is disrespecting the USA and all the persons who have fought, died, volunteered for having a free country and the right to protest. He is disrespecting those who volunteer at schools, coached little league, do city council, etc, etc to make our country great. Racism in this country and any other form of hate is not espoused, codified, or in any manner formally institutionalized by the USA. Women run for president, Blacks make 10s Million a year in their chosen profession, etc. That is not to say there is unjust behavior by individuals, or formalized institutions like a police force. It is possible a whole police agency is racist, due to corruption. But the police/law enforcement as a rule across the USA is not a 'racist org'. So his efforts, in my opinion, are not only wrong but are adding to the racial divide. Many of you reading this are preparing to write about the injustices of the minority communities which constitutes 'institutionalized racism'. That's real. That's debatable as to the extent/manner, but it is not codified "women can't hold office" or "blacks count as 2/3 of a citizen." Stuff like that.
So - he is boneheaded for using hate and disrespect as his method to 'protest'. If, for example, he organized a rally in downtown SF and wore shirts and socks and held signs that were NOT labeled with hate, but rather a plea for justice, and did so as a law abiding citizen, I would give him two thumbs up. If I lived there, I might join him. But even moreso, if he were to use his fame and money for a community outreach program with cops and citizens, I would become a 49fan. (That's saying a lot.)
It is boneheaded to protest using hate and disrespect. That is what CK is doing and that is why we should ALL see this as a wrong method of protest. Wearing socks that have a prejudice statement on them is hateful. And it is EXACTLY what CK is protesting. That is boneheaded. What if his socks said Women are Pigs? Blacks are Pigs? Jazzfanz are pigs? Is that ok? Is that a protest? All cops are not pigs. Some cops are racist. Some women are racist. Some whites are racist. Some _______ are racist. The very farthest extension of this hate protest is the sniper killing of cops.
Also, while not as clear cut, it is wrong that he is disrespecting the USA and all the persons who have fought, died, volunteered for having a free country and the right to protest. He is disrespecting those who volunteer at schools, coached little league, do city council, etc, etc to make our country great. Racism in this country and any other form of hate is not espoused, codified, or in any manner formally institutionalized by the USA. Women run for president, Blacks make 10s Million a year in their chosen profession, etc. That is not to say there is unjust behavior by individuals, or formalized institutions like a police force. It is possible a whole police agency is racist, due to corruption. But the police/law enforcement as a rule across the USA is not a 'racist org'. So his efforts, in my opinion, are not only wrong but are adding to the racial divide. Many of you reading this are preparing to write about the injustices of the minority communities which constitutes 'institutionalized racism'. That's real. That's debatable as to the extent/manner, but it is not codified "women can't hold office" or "blacks count as 2/3 of a citizen." Stuff like that.
So - he is boneheaded for using hate and disrespect as his method to 'protest'. If, for example, he organized a rally in downtown SF and wore shirts and socks and held signs that were NOT labeled with hate, but rather a plea for justice, and did so as a law abiding citizen, I would give him two thumbs up. If I lived there, I might join him. But even moreso, if he were to use his fame and money for a community outreach program with cops and citizens, I would become a 49fan. (That's saying a lot.)
See my post below, which came in shortly after yours.
1. Rosa Parks didn't use hate in her protest. She did the right thing.
2. Kap says he's not protesting the country or the military, but that is the message that is being sent to many.
3. Feathers do need to be ruffled to cause change. I think ruffling can be done without hate as part of the ruffling.
OK.
So after reading all this I've changed my mind.
Private organizations like the NBA and NFL are not national interests, and there is no reason why the US government or public should have any say in their policies, except as public relations postures.
I've decided not to patronize the NBA or NFL financially unless they show respect for national audiences of teams representing their own particular nations. I believe in national sovereignty as opposed to international governance and ideological or sentimentality. If any private organization permits its teams or players to become advocates of anti-American or anti-national politics, I pull my patronage.
I'm looking for interested investors to provide startup capital for contingent national sovereignty-respecting athletic organization.
I've also decided to boycott the NCAA because they are complete assholes with their exploitation of high school and college kids, and their politicization along anti-human rights political alignment.
There is, actually, no Constitutional basis for Federal oversight over athletics, and I refuse to acknowledge any Federally-claimed oversight or any public protest or reaction to a private organization's policies except to advocate that college and high school teams withdraw from politically-active management organizations.
It's time for anybody who respects free enterprise and individual enterprise to boycott the NCAA. Enough of this virtual slaveholding exploitation, please.
So after reading all this I've changed my mind.
Private organizations like the NBA and NFL are not national interests, and there is no reason why the US government or public should have any say in their policies, except as public relations postures.
I've decided not to patronize the NBA or NFL financially unless they show respect for national audiences of teams representing their own particular nations. I believe in national sovereignty as opposed to international governance and ideological or sentimentality. If any private organization permits its teams or players to become advocates of anti-American or anti-national politics, I pull my patronage.
I'm looking for interested investors to provide startup capital for contingent national sovereignty-respecting athletic organization.
I've also decided to boycott the NCAA because they are complete assholes with their exploitation of high school and college kids, and their politicization along anti-human rights political alignment.
There is, actually, no Constitutional basis for Federal oversight over athletics, and I refuse to acknowledge any Federally-claimed oversight or any public protest or reaction to a private organization's policies except to advocate that college and high school teams withdraw from politically-active management organizations.
It's time for anybody who respects free enterprise and individual enterprise to boycott the NCAA. Enough of this virtual slaveholding exploitation, please.
I will disagree with number 2. Not the biggest fan of how Kaep is protesting but that is not the message he is sending. It is obviously the message that many are receiving but not what he is sending. Those are not one and the same. He has come out publicly stating this is not anti American or anti military.
As for the rest, what is "hateful" and offensive to one will not be "hateful" and offensive to another.
Hate? Where is the hate?
Rosa Parks didn't ruffle any feathers? Are you kidding? What, you think all the whites back then slapped themselves upside the head and said "Dang, Rosa, you are so right. What were we thinking?" Or did they continue with Jim Crow and lynchings and bombings and burning churches?
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
What u are describing as hate isn't hate. It's love. U don't seek to change something u hate. He's sacrificing getting another contract when his current contract ends all in the name of giving other's a voice who don't have a platform to do so. That is is the very act of love. When u hate something u leave it. That isn't what Kaep is doing.
Further more. How is what Kaep is doing wrong? I'm speaking of your first point. It's not law to stand for the anthem, and it's his constitutional right to kneel for the anthem. He is only encouraged to stant, but he isn't forced or required by law.
As far as your second point goes. It's not his fault his message isn't getting through to some. If people would actually stop hating they might hear the message that many others have heard.
As for your third point see my first paragraph. It's not Kaep that needs to change its us.
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Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Sorry. I ran out of time to read your post just wanted to point out what I'm saying as far as this one small part of your post goes. And I pointed this out in my post above.
How is it hateful? No one is required to stand it's it's every citizens right to sit or kneel or raise a fist. I'd also like to point out Kaep is risking his livelihood to give others a voice. That is selflessness not hate.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Sorry. I ran out of time to read your post just wanted to point out what I'm saying as far as this one small part of your post goes. And I pointed this out in my post above.
How is it hateful? No one is required to stand it's it's every citizens right to sit or kneel or raise a fist. I'd also like to point out Kaep is risking his livelihood to give others a voice. That is selflessness not hate.
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Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
His relative was not killed by a cop. It seems like African Americans would be angry about black on black crime (murders in Chicago, for instance), but that doesn't even seem to be on the radar of the protestors.
Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
It's interesting that, when asked why he did not stand for the anthem, he listed several other things besides cops killing blacks. Somehow this one issue resonates and Kaep is known as the leader of the protest while the other issues have been completely forgotten.
Joe Bagadonuts
Well-Known Member
I think you misread his post. He said, "Feathers do need to be ruffled."
I stand corrected.
They hate black on black crime as well, fight and protest it. But that is a criminal action, and presumably if found those perpetrators will be brought to justice.
The problem with the cops actions against blacks is that it is lamost never punished. The system works against it, as the DA works with the cops all the time and they are basically on the same team. Same problems for whites subjected to cop abuse, it is just not as common an issue.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Which is why I said we need to Chang the way we think as far as how we view the country and how we are treated with in. Many don't want to listen to Kaep because they have no idea of the inequality blacks go through.
I have typed and deleted three responses. This is way to broad of a statement on way to broad of a subject.
Things are not that simple.