Whatever happens this year we still have a SOLID team
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fishonjazz
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What does strike through mean?
mellow
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Strike through or crossed out.
It was my poorly executed attempt to show how the Utah Jazz have stepped down their goals and bench-marking over the past several years.
They used to talk about building a Championship team. Then they tempered that by saying a championship caliber team because you can't control the finals. Then Championship Caliber was reduced to Playoff contender because they said "there are lots of good teams in the west". Then they stepped down to saying it was important to compete for a playoff spot, as if just getting in was the goal. Now we are talking about being solid as the measure of success.
I realize there are steps involved in bakking a cake, but it seems the goals are moving backwards for the franchise.
It was my poorly executed attempt to show how the Utah Jazz have stepped down their goals and bench-marking over the past several years.
They used to talk about building a Championship team. Then they tempered that by saying a championship caliber team because you can't control the finals. Then Championship Caliber was reduced to Playoff contender because they said "there are lots of good teams in the west". Then they stepped down to saying it was important to compete for a playoff spot, as if just getting in was the goal. Now we are talking about being solid as the measure of success.
I realize there are steps involved in bakking a cake, but it seems the goals are moving backwards for the franchise.
Strike through or crossed out.
It was my poorly executed attempt to show how the Utah Jazz have stepped down their goals and bench-marking over the past several years.
They used to talk about building a Championship team. Then they tempered that by saying a championship caliber team because you can't control the finals. Then Championship Caliber was reduced to Playoff contender because they said "there are lots of good teams in the west". Then they stepped down to saying it was important to compete for a playoff spot, as if just getting in was the goal. Now we are talking about being solid as the measure of success.
I realize there are steps involved in bakking a cake, but it seems the goals are moving backwards for the franchise.
To be fair though I've never said we can never be a Championship Caliber team. It's always going to be a stepping stone type situation. Before you can have a Championship Caliber team you need to have a SOLID team first.
If we look back to the beginning of last season I don't think anyone could have said that we had a SOLID team back then. Hood was not who he is today, Gobert was still trying to get solid minutes, Kanter was still on our team ruining our defense, etc, etc, etc. We have become a SOLID team in a relatively short period of time and that is no small feat.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
You've been killing it lately with your posts, mellow. Wish I didn't have to spread it around before I could rep you again.
Definitely a case of lowered expectations. Every year, DL has said the playoffs aren't the goal. He talks about "not skipping steps." Yet every year we see teams like Portland go out and supplement what they have and surpass the Jazz. Utah is in danger of being in perpetual rebuild mode. What happens next season when Utah has another injury somewhere? Injuries happen to almost EVERY team. The good ones can survive them. The bad teams are devastated because they have zero depth. I don't expect DL to make any free agent additions. Why? Because the market is going to be ridiculous with the new cap. If he didn't want to spend the last three off-seasons - except for scouring through the dollar bin - he's not going to suddenly open the pocketbook this summer when even Trevor Booker will be over-priced.
Then what happens? Another season of fighting for the 8th seed, with a PG who is going to struggle coming back from his injury. And he WILL struggle. He wasn't exactly elite as a rookie. Now look at every other player who has come back from ACL surgery. It's not a 1-year process. Do you think Hayward even WANTS to stay in a city where making the playoffs ISN'T a priority? So Gordon leaves, DL rinses and repeats by filling the team with rookies and castoffs and his mantra is again repeated.
Definitely a case of lowered expectations. Every year, DL has said the playoffs aren't the goal. He talks about "not skipping steps." Yet every year we see teams like Portland go out and supplement what they have and surpass the Jazz. Utah is in danger of being in perpetual rebuild mode. What happens next season when Utah has another injury somewhere? Injuries happen to almost EVERY team. The good ones can survive them. The bad teams are devastated because they have zero depth. I don't expect DL to make any free agent additions. Why? Because the market is going to be ridiculous with the new cap. If he didn't want to spend the last three off-seasons - except for scouring through the dollar bin - he's not going to suddenly open the pocketbook this summer when even Trevor Booker will be over-priced.
Then what happens? Another season of fighting for the 8th seed, with a PG who is going to struggle coming back from his injury. And he WILL struggle. He wasn't exactly elite as a rookie. Now look at every other player who has come back from ACL surgery. It's not a 1-year process. Do you think Hayward even WANTS to stay in a city where making the playoffs ISN'T a priority? So Gordon leaves, DL rinses and repeats by filling the team with rookies and castoffs and his mantra is again repeated.
I think in evaluating this we've got to ask ourselves, did we consistently get better as a team and are we still prudent fiscally? And I think the answers to those are Yes and Yes.
Are we a Championship Caliber team? No. Are we steadily improving to reach that goal? Yes. To me that is not perpetual rebuild. A team like the Sacramento Kings who finish #5 - #8 in the lotto each year is. We are not in that category.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
We had a solid team before DL tore it apart. All that was needed was to retain what we had (except Jefferson and Mo) and add a PG.
Millsap-Favors-DMC-Hayward-Burks and a PG + our draft picks. That's every bit as good as what we have now. Still would have been able to draft Gobert or Giannis or Schroeder. Jazz would have DMC instead of Hood (Hood pick obtained via the GS trade, IINM). Wouldn't have had Burke since picks were combined to trade up. Oh well.
If Exum becomes a franchise player, DL's methodology is a success. Anything short of that and KOC's "retool" strategy would have been much, much better. Well, unless a franchise player comes from the GS pick next season or any of those hundred 2nd rounders Lindsey has accumulated. Dennis Lindsey: King of the Minor Deal. Emperor of the Clearance Rack.
I will give credit to Dennis for ONE thing: getting rid of Corbin. Oh, and the Exum pick. Yes, tanking into that draft spot was DL's strategy. Hood was the highest rated player on the board. Half credit for that one with the disclaimer that we could have retained DMC for a lot cheaper than his current contract (in lieu of having the GS pick to draft Rodney). Same with Millsap. Could have signed him to a long-term deal and had him start at the 4 with Favors at the 5.
The Burke pick was ABSOLUTELY disastrous to DL's master plan. He was trying to emulate the OKC rebuild. And to do that, you CAN'T miss with a top-10 pick. DL needed two franchise players in successive drafts. Instead, he got a bust, a guy afraid of his own shadow and a ballerina dancer in his three shots at the lottery. And yes, it can also be argued the Jazz were never bad enough to fully implement the GM tank. They needed a couple of top-5 chances. DL needed to commit fully (if that was going to be the strategy) by trading Hayward and probably Favors to lose 60+ games for two years straight. Jazz will still be "not skipping steps" when Minnesota is winning the division with their young talent. I'd trade the talent on that team for the Jazz' straight up any day of the week, especially considering they'll be getting another high draft pick. They traded their best player, tanked, and got their two franchise players.
So yes, Jazz will have a SOLID team that has missed the playoffs for 3 years. We had a solid team that could have made the playoffs the last 3 years. If Exum or Lyles become franchise players, MAYBE you can argue the losing was worth it. But will Lyles be better than Millsap? Will Hood be better than DMC? Those are the players Utah COULD have retained AND STILL had picks in the mid-teens to early-20's (assuming they made the playoffs). Instead, those players were lost for nothing, all in an attempt to chase franchise players with lottery picks.
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K-Man #32
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You can't be serious!
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
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Yes I can. Why not?? Not saying he will, but. He has shown he can be a good shooter score pass and play good defense. He has shown flashes in this his rookie year, and has decent size.
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mellow
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OneLove, my post was not meant to be critical of you, or even the team really. It was more of an observation about how the team PR talk and even our talk here has adjusted. The slow breakdown of expectations and acceptance of a new reality is a very human response and we can see it everywhere. We see it in America as the standard of living continues to decrease. Anyone who who remembers the roaring 90's or even the early 2000's this new reality kind of falls below expectations, but it is our new reality. Have you ever read To Make a Fire by Jack London? Very similar breakdown played out in a short story walking a healthy man down the path of death.
mellow
Well-Known Member
See, another step down in our expectations. You are suggesting that missing the playoffs by being the 12th seed is better than missing the playoffs as the 5th to 8th seed. To be clear, I'm not being critical of your benchmarking, because you can make a rational argument out of it. I am fascinated how we got to the place that Jazz success would be measured in which lottery seed they got, when not long ago success was measured by how many games over 50 wins, or did they make it past the second round.
fishonjazz
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Teams consisting of different players with different ages, talent, coaches, competition, etc have different expectations and therefore different measurements for success?
K-Man #32
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The jazz are in this position because of their weak pgs. Neto is a bench warmer on the majority of teams in the NBA. Let's face it even some bench warmers have flashes too right ?
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I like how Gobert was thought to be this franchise changing HOF type center everyone here thought to now just being "solid". I knew he was nothing more than a Tyson Chandler type (probably less than now). I really think we should consider packaging him for a high draft pick. A guy like that can't win you games in this league anymore, who gives you nothing on the offensive end.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
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He's a a rookie?!?!? He's going to look good and bad. Did u expect him to be good and consistent in his first year?!?! Seriously?!!?
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Handlogten's Heros
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It's just frustrating that we added zero veterans in the offseason... none... we could have added things and just chose not to because of internal development.
That was a mistake, but then a guy like Courtney Lee goes to Charlotte for nothing. I know he's a free agent, but we could have offered second round picks and done that deal. I think playoffs would benefit the teams development and that is what this season was supposed to be about. We should have sacrificed a little. Our margin is so close and I don't see how our young guys playing with guys who aren't NBA caliber will help them.
That was a mistake, but then a guy like Courtney Lee goes to Charlotte for nothing. I know he's a free agent, but we could have offered second round picks and done that deal. I think playoffs would benefit the teams development and that is what this season was supposed to be about. We should have sacrificed a little. Our margin is so close and I don't see how our young guys playing with guys who aren't NBA caliber will help them.
How about Mario Chalmers who just had 5 steals against us today going from Miami to Grizzlies for nearly nothing as well?
DL is good at drafting but I dunno if he's very good at making in-season acquisitions....
K-Man #32
Banned
This is not a valid excuse, look at other rookie point guards that are excelling much better than Neto. It is clear to me you have a man crush on him since he is a below mediocre talent right now and will always will be. He pretty much is the second coming of Raul Lopez.