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What's Your 2014 Draft Big Board.

seattlejazzfan said:
Again, if people want to put Exum in their top 4 I couldn't give a rat's ***, but don't pretend it's anything other than following what other people have said about him. Hell, I have Saric in my top 4 and I haven't seen him play a second of basketball. I just love the fact that at age 19 dude led a decent pro league in scoring and rebounding and when it matter most delivered a MVP performance.
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So gathering information isn't good enough? That shouldn't count in forming an opinion?

I guess I've been doing this whole school thing wrong. I should stop reading up on subjects and gathering information. Instead I should just slice somebody up so I learn from experience.

Anybody willing to let me learn on them? TIA.

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seattlejazzfan said:
It's a good question. How did Bismack Biyombo's dominating performance in that game work out for NBA scouts? That's just one example of people trying to draw too much out of an all-star game performance - there are plenty others.
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Didn't Dirk look good at that game?

I'm not saying that the Hoops Summit should be the sole basis behind forming an opinion but it is another piece of information you can use to help know a player better.
Yes, I've read what a lot of people have said about Exum. I've watched about 4 live games that he's played in. I wish I could have watched 100 but that's wasn't possible for me. I've liked what I've seen and I believe he'll turn out to be one of the top 2 players from this draft.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Trashtalk
 
seattlejazzfan said:
Again, if people want to put Exum in their top 4 I couldn't give a rat's ***, but don't pretend it's anything other than following what other people have said about him. Hell, I have Saric in my top 4 and I haven't seen him play a second of basketball. I just love the fact that at age 19 dude led a decent pro league in scoring and rebounding and when it mattered most delivered a MVP performance.
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All but a few of us base our opinions of many players off highlight videos and scouting reports, especially as the picks get closer to the second round. How many of us saw Inglis, Tavares, Bogdanovic, Capella, Micic play? Maybe some of the posters on this board who are outside the U.S. So we rely on them and what int'l scouts have said and they rely on us for a lot of evaluation of the players we've seen in U.S. college games. Heck, Nurkic may be a lottery pick and I'll bet half of us had never heard of him until a couple of months ago.
 
orangello said:
So gathering information isn't good enough? That shouldn't count in forming an opinion?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Trashtalk
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Don't be silly. You responded to a post of mine where I explained I have a guy in my top 4 based soley on information gathered. I like a guy only because of his production in different leagues. Not every having see him play, not based on what other people have said about him. Dude averaged 17 and 10 this past season at age 19 and was MVP of the championship tournament. That's the only reason I have him in my top 4 - probably pretty stupid at the end of the day.

The difference between me and you is that when somebody accuses me of liking him solely based on his stats, I'll admit it. You like Exum only based on what other people are saying about him and perhaps a meaningless all-star game. Don't pretend you're drawing conclusions on him based on anything else. You like Exum because other people like Exum.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
Don't be silly. You responded to a post of mine where I explained I have a guy in my top 4 based soley on information gathered. I like a guy only because of his production in different leagues. Not every having see him play, not based on what other people have said about him. Dude averaged 17 and 10 this past season at age 19 and was MVP of the championship tournament. That's the only reason I have him in my top 4 - probably pretty stupid at the end of the day.

The difference between me and you is that when somebody accuses me of liking him solely based on his stats, I'll admit it. You like Exum only based on what other people are saying about him and perhaps a meaningless all-star game. Don't pretend you're drawing conclusions on him based on anything else. You like Exum because other people like Exum.
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Completely false. Did I watch him play in the Hoops Summit? Yes. Did I like what I saw? Yes. It fact, I liked it so much that I made sure that I watched as many games of his as I possible could. I made sure that I watched as many games from the 2013 FIBA Mens U19 tournament as I could. That is where I started really liking what I saw.

During the Hoops Summit I was impressed with his hustle and speed. At that point I thought that he would be a great 2nd or 3rd option because he was talented and he played hard. After watching the U19 tournament I started thinking that he could be a good #1 option for a team. The game that really jumped out to me was the game vs Spain. In that game he was the sole focus of the entire Spaniard defense and yet he still looked great. Here are his stats: 33 pts, 5 rbd, 4 ast, 4 stl 50% FG and 33% 3pt. I was surprised by those numbers because he seemed to be everywhere. I thought he had a double double. He had amazing passes throughout the game. There were so many plays that he teammates missed open looks and easy shots at the rim and those are the reasons that he only had 4 ast.

Since that tournament I haven't been able to watch anything but highlight videos of him. Have I been looking for what others are saying? Yes. I try and find as much of that as possible. That has all helped me to form the opinion that I have of him at this moment.
 
Core4 said:
All but a few of us base our opinions of many players off highlight videos and scouting reports, especially as the picks get closer to the second round. How many of us saw Inglis, Tavares, Bogdanovic, Capella, Micic play? Maybe some of the posters on this board who are outside the U.S. So we rely on them and what int'l scouts have said and they rely on us for a lot of evaluation of the players we've seen in U.S. college games. Heck, Nurkic may be a lottery pick and I'll bet half of us had never heard of him until a couple of months ago.
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What's crazy is that we have more information on most (all?) of those guys based on real game experience, but none of them are consensus top 5 picks.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
Where? In what game?
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Nike Hoops summitt last year, and the fiba u-19 video that wasn't in english. Loved him then, and he's only gotten better. I've also watched every clip out there on him.


Was really hoping to keep this thread clean from reasoning and arguments, but whatever...

Me putting Exum at 2 is by process of elimination. Here's why I don't list other canidates there:

A. Embiid- because he has back issues. Even if he pans out medically, it is a huge risk. He has skills, but he is also very raw and at least two years away from playing at the value of his pick, and the level that our team needs. In any case, we already have Favors, Kanter, and Gobert who we are finally developing/ starting to look good.

B. Parker - Wouldn't draft him at 2 because he is a serious tweener. His college PER 40 matches Melo's, but it also matches Anthony Bennett's. He has serious defensive limitations. He was unable to guard slow and undersized college centers, how will he guard and NBA SF? Do you play him at the 4 because of that? He'd be very undersized. He's a serious one way player. Good, but not franchise good. If we don't care about defense, we already have an elite sized offensive minded PF IN kanter. If Jabari is a 4, the value just isn't there for us.

C. Randle - baby raptor arms. Undersized. No outside shot. No SF skills.

D. Smart - good player, but hell no at 2, and you know why.

E. Gordon - love the kid at 5 or later. Great d, athleticism, and has fluid enough movement to play SF, but he can't shoot.

F. Vonleh - way too raw. He has talent, but not refined enough for the 2nd pick. He has the ability to stretch the floor, has offensive potential, great size and body, but he is NOT a shot blocker. I think Kanter is farther along. Redundant. Waste of a tank.


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I have to laugh at people who act like we know everything about players after seeing them in college. Are you aware of how trashy the college game and competition is? 35 second shot clock, no spacing, little PnR, small and unathletic opponents, etc.

Exum not playing college is not a big deal. We've seen him in games, he has all the measurements, he has the obvious talent. Like all players in this draft, he will need further cultivation, but he has undeniable god given ability.

Furthermore, I don't like Trey's pace of play, defensive potential, or ability to get to the FT line. All of these issues are fixed with Exum. Our core has never had a PG who played to their strengths, so how do we even know if who we currently have are actually peaked, or close to peaking?
 
orangello said:
Completely false. Did I watch him play in the Hoops Summit? Yes. Did I like what I saw? Yes. It fact, I liked it so much that I made sure that I watched as many games of his as I possible could. I made sure that I watched as many games from the 2013 FIBA Mens U19 tournament as I could. That is where I started really liking what I saw.

During the Hoops Summit I was impressed with his hustle and speed. At that point I thought that he would be a great 2nd or 3rd option because he was talented and he played hard. After watching the U19 tournament I started thinking that he could be a good #1 option for a team. The game that really jumped out to me was the game vs Spain. In that game he was the sole focus of the entire Spaniard defense and yet he still looked great. Here are his stats: 33 pts, 5 rbd, 4 ast, 4 stl 50% FG and 33% 3pt. I was surprised by those numbers because he seemed to be everywhere. I thought he had a double double. He had amazing passes throughout the game. There were so many plays that he teammates missed open looks and easy shots at the rim and those are the reasons that he only had 4 ast.

Since that tournament I haven't been able to watch anything but highlight videos of him. Have I been looking for what others are saying? Yes. I try and find as much of that as possible. That has all helped me to form the opinion that I have of him at this moment.
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Fair enough. I think it's crazy to put a guy in the top 4 based on his performance in all-star games, but again, I'm the lone wolf here, so I must be crazy, not you.
 
seattlejazzfan said:
lol. What are the games you've seen Exum play in? For orangello's info, I'm not accusing you of being a liar, rather I'm just curious.
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I flew to AUS and we played a game of HORSE in his neighbors driveway.

Dude has the stand behind the basket and shoot the ball over the backboard shot on lockdown. Incredible competitor.


£¥£
 
seattlejazzfan said:
Fair enough. I think it's crazy to put a guy in the top 4 based on his performance in all-star games, but again, I'm the lone wolf here, so I must be crazy, not you.
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Nope, the only crazy aspect of you is thinking that there are no posters here who have only regurgitated information and opinions from others.

In fact I might even go as far as to say that those who are high on Exum have done more watching about him that most and that is why he's higher on their board that on most people's boards.
 
Sexual Favors said:
Nike Hoops summitt last year, and the fiba u-19 video that wasn't in english. Loved him then, and he's only gotten better. I've also watched every clip out there on him.


Was really hoping to keep this thread clean from reasoning and arguments, but whatever...

Me putting Exum at 2 is by process of elimination. Here's why I don't list other canidates there:

A. Embiid- because he has back issues. Even if he pans out medically, it is a huge risk. He has skills, but he is also very raw and at least two years away from playing at the value of his pick, and the level that our team needs. In any case, we already have Favors, Kanter, and Gobert who we are finally developing/ starting to look good.

B. Parker - Wouldn't draft him at 2 because he is a serious tweener. His college PER 40 matches Melo's, but it also matches Anthony Bennett's. He has serious defensive limitations. He was unable to guard slow and undersized college centers, how will he guard and NBA SF? Do you play him at the 4 because of that? He'd be very undersized. He's a serious one way player. Good, but not franchise good. If we don't care about defense, we already have an elite sized offensive minded PF IN kanter. If Jabari is a 4, the value just isn't there for us.

C. Randle - baby raptor arms. Undersized. No outside shot. No SF skills.

D. Smart - good player, but hell no at 2, and you know why.

E. Gordon - love the kid at 5 or later. Great d, athleticism, and has fluid enough movement to play SF, but he can't shoot.

F. Vonleh - way too raw. He has talent, but not refined enough for the 2nd pick. He has the ability to stretch the floor, has offensive potential, great size and body, but he is NOT a shot blocker. I think Kanter is farther along. Redundant. Waste of a tank.


-

I have to laugh at people who act like we know everything about players after seeing them in college. Are you aware of how trashy the college game and competition is? 35 second shot clock, no spacing, little PnR, small and unathletic opponents, etc.

Exum not playing college is not a big deal. We've seen him in games, he has all the measurements, he has the obvious talent. Like all players in this draft, he will need further cultivation, but he has undeniable god given ability.

Furthermore, I don't like Trey's pace of play, defensive potential, or ability to get to the FT line. All of these issues are fixed with Exum. Our core has never had a PG who played to their strengths, so how do we even know if who we currently have are actually peaked, or close to peaking?
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C'mon SF, I don't care if you have him in your top 4, but don't pretend you've seen him in real basketball games. You've seen him in an all-star game playing against other High School kids.
 
UGLI baby said:
I flew to AUS and we played a game of HORSE in his neighbors driveway.

Dude has the stand behind the basket and shoot the ball over the backboard shot on lockdown. Incredible competitor.


£¥£
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You win. Exum is now in my top 4.

I'm no longer a lone wolf. :(
 
seattlejazzfan said:
C'mon SF, I don't care if you have him in your top 4, but don't pretend you've seen him in real basketball games. You've seen him in an all-star game playing against other High School kids.
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For my own curiosity's sake, do you consider the U19 tournament an All-Star game?
 
seattlejazzfan said:
C'mon SF, I don't care if you have him in your top 4, but don't pretend you've seen him in real basketball games. You've seen him in an all-star game playing against other High School kids.
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Don't pretend you've seen any prospect in a real basketball game either. You've seen them playing a different game with different rules, in college games with other just-out-of high school kids who have talent, or older kids who couldn't even make the DLeague.

You're just salty because some of us Exum supporters have actually thought this through.
 
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