When will Jefferson have breakout season?

[sepanol]

Only thing I can see Kanter being better at is running the floor, and a better mid range game. As far as rebounding goes, 2.5 years ago Al was averaging around 11-12 a game. I don't think Kanter will average too much more than that quite frankly, especially with Favors and Millsap on our team. Post moves? Al. Defense? Must wait until we see him play regularly; defense and assisting are mostly a guessing game as of this point.

Rebounding is one of the top sides of Kanter's game and he is obviously better on the defensive end, at least he is smarter.
The best thing Big Al does is his post savy skills. And as we have seen in eurobasket, Kanter will be something close to him worst case. Maybe he should improve his finishing under rim but he has very good foot games under the rim.

I dont even talk about the team chemistry stuff, which Big Al will mess unless he is given the franchise player role, but looking only in the court attributes , i dont see any reason not to trade Big Al while we have Kanter, Millsap, Favors and Memo on the team.

Well you would say, memo doesnt deserve 10 million pyear deal , and yes he doesnt, but its his last year and he may be in our mid term plans if he agrees a mid level contract. He can stay and provide help from the bench a few more years but Big Al will not accept such a role and he will ask even more money once his contract is over and we will probably not be able to pay since we will make new contracts with our young and talented players then. So instead of keeping him in the team 2 more years and see him gone without anything in return, it is more logical to trade and get something good while he has some trade value on the market.

 

[Lakers_Slapper]

I don't understand when people said what you see is what you get after 7 years in the league. Kevin Garnett won his MVP in season 8 when he averaged career highs in points and rebounds. Chris Webber in his season 8 averaged his career high in points and made All-NBA first team. Charles Barkley won MVP in his 9th season. Hakeem Olajuwon won his 2 championships in dominating fashion in his 10th and 11th seasons. Our very own Karl Malone won 2 MVPs in his 30s.

I am not comparing Big Al to these guys, but if the Big Al that we saw in February and March who averaged 23.8 points, 10.9 rebounds, 1.9 blocks with 54% shooting improves by small margins in each of these categories (which is fairly possible as he is entering his prime, one more year removed from the knee injury and one year of Utah Jazz basketball under his belt), he will be right in the mix of best big men in the NBA.

You have a point. I really think it comes down to Al's efforts in the gym during this extended off season. If he rides this vacation with no work put in, he could return at the decline of his career. But if he's utilizing his time, working in the gym, he could be due for an ok break out season.

 

[GVC]

If Millsap was better on offence how come he averaged less?

Oh my. I guess I can start ignoring your posts entirely.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Oh my. I guess I can start ignoring your posts entirely.

Oops, spelling mistake.

And until I can see Millsap average 21+ a game off of 17 FG attempts, then I'll continue to give Al jefferson the edge here. True, he averaged 17 from 13 attempts which is slightly better percentage-wise, but Im curious to see how he would perform as the team's number one scoring option. I think it would be a safe assumption to make, that his percentages would decrease if the Jazz utilized him as their number one scoring weapon, much like Al has been throughout his career. Quite frankly I am a huge fan of Millsap, and I like him more than Jefferson, but I'm simply siding with Al here because he gets WAY too much flak on this forum. 2 years ago we were bitching about needing "that" shot blocking centre, and now that we have one of the leagues better blockers we complain about his rotational defensive woes, and "inefficient-offense" when really its painfully obvious that we blew it this year because of a) using a shooting guard that could not score, more defend well. b) lack of a consistently powerful bench as the season progressed, c) All-NBA Point leaving mid-season d) HOF coach retiring and various injury problems, especially towards the end of the year. I really see Al as a part of a contending team. People always have "ideal" championship teams envisioned, when really I think people underestimate how unexpected the NBA is, come playoff time. There is no ideal time in my opinion, a team must simply be the most efficient club on both ends of the floor to outdo the others.

And Sepanol, you saying that Kanter's post moves are close to as good as Big Als AT WORST is one of the most laughable claims I have ever read on this forum. Not gonna argue Kanter vs Al with you any longer, it is painfully evident that you will side with your fellow-countryman until the end, no matter what.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Because numbers is the only thing we should ever consider. Never mind the effect actual game play. Lets just go off on numbers.

Had we done this, Tmac would have been MVP at least 3 times.

sigh...

Yes, considering all that Al gives us (both pros and cons), I'd consider him average.

When did I say you should only judge a player through statistics? I am not saying a players ability should be completely justified through stats, I just think its utterly idiotic to completely ignore them. Im not saying he's one of the best, in fact I think he's far from it (currently). However, looking at stats like those and deeming them "average" is quite stupid, in my opinion. TMAC was definitely never MVP calibre, but claiming that he wasnt an above-average scorer simply because of his negative attributes that don't appear on a scoresheet is foolish.

 

[GVC]

And until I can see Millsap average 21+ a game off of 17 FG attempts, then I'll continue to give Al jefferson the edge here.

Even though Jefferson's never done that either?

 

[Ben10]

Even though Jefferson's never done that either?

Actually Jefferson has done that.

2007-08 23 MIN NBA 82 82 35.6 8.8 17.6 .500 0.0 0.1 .000 3.5 4.8 .721 3.8 7.4 11.1 1.4 0.9 1.5 2.0 2.7 21.0

21 points on 17.6 shots per game at 50% from the field

And was very close the next year when he got injured toward the end of the year. Up to the injury he was averaging a little over 23 PPG on 19 shots per game.

 

[GVC]

Actually Jefferson has done that.

2007-08 23 MIN NBA 82 82 35.6 8.8 17.6 .500 0.0 0.1 .000 3.5 4.8 .721 3.8 7.4 11.1 1.4 0.9 1.5 2.0 2.7 21.0

21 points on 17.6 shots per game at 50% from the field

17.6 > 17 last I checked.

And, I find it hard to believe that Millsap wouldn't have scored an additional 3.7 points per game if he were given an additional 4.6 field goal attempts per game (go ahead, read that again).

The point of all this is that efficiency and team play matter in basketball. Anyone who looks at volume numbers alone when making judgments about NBA players, without considering usage and team play, isn't very bright.

 

[Deleted member 848]

17.6 > 17 last I checked.

And, I find it hard to believe that Millsap wouldn't have scored an additional 3.7 points per game if he were given an additional 4.6 field goal attempts per game (go ahead, read that gain).

The point of all this is that efficiency and team play matter in basketball. Anyone who looks at volume numbers alone when making judgments about NBA players, without considering usage and team play, isn't very bright.

Haha sorry buddy, i was 0.6 off. Well I think otherwise; I suppose there isn't really a great way for us to argue this, so we'll have to keep our eyes peeled for the coming seasons.

Sorry, when did I ever say that team play and efficiency doesn't matter? Considering usage? I just said that if Millsap was used more often, his percentages would change for the worse. You've seemed to concoct this notion that I simply look at stats and make a judgement on players based on that, and I have no idea why.

 

[Ben10]

17.6 > 17 last I checked.

And, I find it hard to believe that Millsap wouldn't have scored an additional 3.7 points per game if he were given an additional 4.6 field goal attempts per game (go ahead, read that gain).

The point of all this is that efficiency and team play matter in basketball. Anyone who looks at volume numbers alone when making judgments about NBA players, without considering usage and team play, isn't very bright.

I not disagreeing with you or your point. Just pointing out that your statement about Jefferson not doing that was not correct. The .6 extra what ever. It still says 17. And I consider 50% from the field as an efficient shooting percentage. I have no doubt that Millsap could match or do better than the #'s we are talking about here I have no argument with you there.

I also agree with you in that Jefferson has got to learn how to play the game from a team perspective better. And that may be something that he is never going to be able to do. Hard to change the way you been doing things (and been told to do them that way for every other team you have played for). And If he can't change that mentality then the Jazz may not be a good fit for him. (This was a concern from when the trade went down). But considering the all the injuries, Trade and Sloan leaving its hard for me to say that Jefferson is a lost cause. I still think given another year in a system that demands team work and passing, and that helping as a team on both sides of the court is essential to success, that he could come around to be a big part of our team.

 

[Zerol]

Can you name a few things that Big Al is better than Boozer?

(I am one of the boozer haters and i consider him extremely overrated)

Easy. Back to the basket scoring, man-to-man defense, help defense too (consider Boozer plays no defense), durability, attitude, ability to score against taller players, etc.

 

[Zerol]

Simple answer : defense

also you can look at many other things like he is 7-8 yrs younger who has a very good prospect in the league. I cant guarantee Kanter is gonna be one of the elite big man in the league but i can guarantee he will be better than AJ.

Also memo is turkish too but i am never so high on Memo. So you cant only explain with homerism. Maybe i can have more symphaty but thats it, im not gonna rate a player much more highly than he is no matter which ever nationality he has.

I am going to remember you saying that. Not that I don't hope that would happen cuz if it does happen, that means that Jazz hit a jackpot with that NJ pick, but to say that Kanter is going to be better than Al before he plays an NBA game against serious competition is just absurd.

I can give you that Kanter hustles on the defensive end but I didn't see his defense being superior to Al's, even considered the difference of competition they were facing. Plus, if Al has Asik behind him, he might all of a sudden become a better defender than what people think of him.

 

[GVC]

Just pointing out that your statement about Jefferson not doing that was not correct. The .6 extra what ever. It still says 17.

My statement was absolutely correct. And no, it doesn't say 17, it says 17.6.

Aggressive ignorance is still ignorance, my friend. 17.6 > 17. Jefferson has never scored 21+ points on 17- field goal attempts, as was implied by his original post. Had he said 21+ points on 18 field goal attempts, I wouldn't have said anything (besides noting that efficiency and team play matter in competitive team sports) because he would have been correct. You can't just arbitrarily choose when to round up or down if you want to be taken seriously.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Guys, let's look at the facts. Al is BIG. BIG AL IS SO BIG OKAY GUYS

 

[GVC]

It's true.

AJ is bigger than Paul Millsap. He also takes more shots than Millsap.

That's what the Jazz should be looking for: Guys who are big and take lots of shots. That's how you build a champion.

 

[NUMBERICA]

It's true.

AJ is bigger than Paul Millsap. He also takes more shots than Millsap.

That's what the Jazz should be looking for: Guys who are big and take lots of shots. That's how you build a champion.

But Shaq was big ok lol

 

[GVC]

Just to illustrate my point better:

Player 1 shoots 17.0 field goals per game, making 8.9 on average.

Player 2 shoots 17.9 field goals per game, making 8.0 on average.

By this stupid convention you've applied, both shoot 8 - 17 on average. We can just "whatever" the fact that Player 1's field goal percentage is .524 and Player 2's field goal percentage is .447. These differences are negligible, right?

 

[The Thriller]

When did I say you should only judge a player through statistics? I am not saying a players ability should be completely justified through stats, I just think its utterly idiotic to completely ignore them. Im not saying he's one of the best, in fact I think he's far from it (currently). However, looking at stats like those and deeming them "average" is quite stupid, in my opinion. TMAC was definitely never MVP calibre, but claiming that he wasnt an above-average scorer simply because of his negative attributes that don't appear on a scoresheet is foolish.

When all you did was use statistics to suggest that he wasn't average.

Sorry, but you're in the minority here. Most people have seen enough of Big Al to see what he truly is. An average big man who can score in bunches (especially against stupid super aggressive bigs who will fall for his cheap fakes), but never be depended on as an offensive player. A shotblocker who rotates slowly, isn't athletic enough to hedge, and is relatively soft. Sure, he might block a shot or two due his his height. But never a defensive stopper.

Again, he's good. Not great. Not bad. Just good.

It's not an insult. It's just reality.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

When all you did was use statistics to suggest that he wasn't average.

Sorry, but you're in the minority here. Most people have seen enough of Big Al to see what he truly is. An average big man who can score in bunches (especially against stupid super aggressive bigs who will fall for his cheap fakes), but never be depended on as an offensive player. A shotblocker who rotates slowly, isn't athletic enough to hedge, and is relatively soft. Sure, he might block a shot or two due his his height. But never a defensive stopper.

Again, he's good. Not great. Not bad. Just good.

It's not an insult. It's just reality.

See now you used "good" I think if you'd used good instead of average nobody would have questioned that and I think most everybody would say good is better than average.

 

[Deleted member 848]

My statement was absolutely correct. And no, it doesn't say 17, it says 17.6.

Aggressive ignorance is still ignorance, my friend. 17.6 > 17. Jefferson has never scored 21+ points on 17- field goal attempts, as was implied by his original post. Had he said 21+ points on 18 field goal attempts, I wouldn't have said anything (besides noting that efficiency and team play matter in competitive team sports) because he would have been correct. You can't just arbitrarily choose when to round up or down if you want to be taken seriously.

Lol. So instead of taking what I have to say in a general sense and responding normally, you're just gonna teach me how to round properly?

As a poster you have always been one of my favourites, since you tend to show no bias in your solid assessments of whatever the discussion is about. Not sure what your deal is, here. A respectable poster would have just pointed out "hey, 17.6 is .11 (lol) closer to 18 than 17, hence you must round up" and then gone on to further make whatever rebuttal they had in mind. Instead, you just sidetrack yourself and spend three posts talking about me baaarely fibbing one stat (which still serves my point regardless) and make yourself seem like an asshat in the process.