Where is that pit bull thread when I need it?

[Bronco70]

But that's never going to happen.

You're right. It is a completely hypothetical scenario, which would be useless if I were arguing that pitbulls are a bigger problem than guns. That is not my position, however. What I attempted to point out was, when a gun hurts or kills someone, human negligence or malice is always involved. For pitbull attacks, this is not the case.

I don't have a dog in this fight

I see what you did there.

 

[Safetydan]

I see what you did there.

I think everyone saw what he did there.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Again with facts and logical thinking? Please, take that nonsense elsewhere -- Numberica and Salty are thinking here!

What have I said that has offended you or give cause for being chastised? Guns are more dangerous than dogs and kill a lot more (whether purposefully or accidentally)? The bred is oft abused and there should be controls to try to prevent that? Have I engaged anyone in point-by-point, obnoxious back-and-forths clinging to bizarre and quasi-insane assertions like Salty does every day here?

In short, what?

 

[Gameface]

What have I said that has offended you or give cause for being chastised? Guns are more dangerous than dogs and kill a lot more (whether purposefully or accidentally)? The bred is oft abused and there should be controls to try to prevent that? Have I engaged anyone in point-by-point, obnoxious back-and-forths clinging to bizarre and quasi-insane assertions like Salty does every day here?

In short, what?

And while dogs are also used for personal and home defense, I'd say guns have provided far more personal and home defense, saved more lives, protected the innocent more than dogs by a pretty wide margin. The police and armed forces use guns every day, in very large numbers, to help keep us all safe.

If you ban pit bulls then only criminals will have pit bulls.

 

[moevillini]

So they're not a weapon, they're a tool to help them win a fight (aka a weapon). Got it.

No. More of a tool to help them not lose an ear.

I proved the ears were cropped to make the dog a better fighter. If you don't agree with my conclusion, you have yet to prove otherwise. Your attempt to clam as fact what you have failed to prove is laughable.

there's so much that's laughable in this thread, including these imaginative uses of the word "tool"

actually, I can think of a better way to use the word "tool" in this thread, and it doesn't apply to dogs' ears!

<3

 

[SaltyDawg]

Well scat, along with many of the links I posted PROVED otherwise. Your link did nothing to prove that is made the dog a BETTER fighter, so how you can claim that, well no one but you knows. Please quote the exact passage that states that cropping ears makes the dog a BETTER fighter and more FEROCIOUS as you have claimed. Otherwise, feel free to read the many links scat and I have posted and quoted PROVING otherwise.

What exactly did you post that proved it made the dog a better fighter? All you posted was a link showing that they used to crop the dogs ears for fights. Nothing at all even remotely proves a correlation between cropping and FEROCIOUSNESS or ABILITY to fight. Again, feel free to post the exact quote that proves that cropping = automatically a more FEROCIOUS and BETTER fighting dog. Oh and it would help to post the exact quote that the only reason for cropping is specifically to make the dog more ferocious, since scat and I have posted easily 6-10 links and quotes showing that is NOT correct.

Or you can just keep insisting you are right in the face of all evidence to the contrary. That seems to work so well.

What the heck have you guys proven? You post a bunch of quotes form people basically saying, "I only cut ma dawg's ears fir looks, I ain't plannin ta fight 'im..." That is somehow proof?

Look, I posted a link showing where cropping ears came from. It's already common knowledge among anyone who actually knows a thing or 2 about pits. But since you want to pretend reality doesn't exist, here you go:

https://btoellner.typepad.com/kcdogblog/aggression/

"Interestingly, she brought up her huge dislike of things like cropped ears and tail-docking. When a dog has cropped ears, the ears are always in an "up and forward" position. Other dogs will almost always interpret a dog with cropped ears as being in a distance-increasing posture, which can lead to the other dog mirroring that behavior -- which leads to two dogs in more aggressive-type positions. It is hard not to think that the popularity of ear-cropping in 'pit bull' breeds has actually caused some of the "dog aggression" issues that people perceive because it actually spurs other dogs to react less invitingly to the dog with cropped ears, which can spur a little more rivalry between a couple of dogs. I also wonder if ear-cropping had something to do with Randall Lockwood's initial thoughts on "pit bulls' back in the mid-80s when he said that pit bulls didn't give warning signs before attacking -- because one of the major "warning signs" would be ear position -- and I don't know how much we understood about canine behavior when it comes to body position subtleties in the 1980s."

https://welcomedoglovers.blogspot.com/2008/12/dog-aggression-why-dog-becomes.html

"Tail Docking and Ear Cropping
I often come across people say ing tail docking makes dog agressiv e. True to some
ex tent, but they hav e nev er been able to giv e a logical relationship between tail
docking and aggression. Ear Cropping too is another reason. Wondering why ?
A ccording to researchers and scientists at the Univ ersity of V ictoria in V ancouv er,
Canada, dogs with docked tail are relativ e more aggressiv e than those with the
complete ones. The scientists discov ered that normal dogs approach a dog with
docked tail more cautiously . Since tail is the most significant communicating tool
for dogs, a normal dog gets confused when he come across a dog without tail,
because he can't see him wagging, which happens to be the most important signal of
friendship. The ov er cautious nature of the other dog sometimes irritates the dog
with docked tail and he tends to show his aggression.
Tail docking means amputation of the ending part of the spines, which is a v ital part
of the body . A gain when the ears are cropped and tails docked by an inex perienced
person, they often cut off certain nerv es, which is a reason for some permanent
disorder, called Phantom Limb Pain or Phantom pain. This causes a constant
irritating pain ± though not intollerable. This is another major reason why dogs
with cropped ears and docked tails sometimes behanv e in the way they shouldn't.
I am against ear cropping and tail docking. I would like to hear from y ou about this."

 

[SaltyDawg]

For all of you idiots saying the cropped ears (or headgear, body armor, etc) isn't a weapon:

https://dictionary.reference.com/browse/weapon

weap·on   [wep-uhn] Show IPA
noun
1. any instrument or device for use in attack or defense in combat, fighting, or war, as a sword, rifle, or cannon.
2. anything used against an opponent, adversary, or victim: the deadly weapon of satire.
3. Zoology. any part or organ serving for attack or defense, as claws, horns, teeth, or stings.

 

[SaltyDawg]

I'm happy to see someone else pointing and laughing at Salty besides me. I was starting to feel bad.

Yet another fantastic argument from trout.

 

[Scat]

Clearly.

 

[kwb]

I cannot begin to tell you all how stupid the phrase, "Pit Bulls were bred to kill or attack" is. Really? So you mean to tell me that if I buy a chocolate lab or any lab for that instance that I can just shoot a duck and that dog will know to go retrieve the duck and bring it back to me without any training at all? Given that they are mostly "bred" to duck hunt? Give me a break.

The sweetest dog I ever met was a Pit Bull. Yes, at first I was scared to death of the dog because of what the media and others told me about them. I was scared of the look of that dog, not it's actions which were, licking, sitting and rolling around wanting me to pet her belly.

You guys do realize that everything the media reports is not always true? Yes, some but the media as we know is notorious for twisting things for ratings and attention. Most dog attacks are always considered Pit Bulls. People don't want to read about a small dog say biting my brother in the face and giving him 24 stitches. Or a lab biting me on the inner thigh while training for my marathon on a regular street when I was showing no aggression and minding my own business. Do I believe that all labs are bad because of this, hell no! Just a dumbass owner who figured he could let his dog run wild because the breed didn't have a bad reputation.

There are a ton of myths about these dogs that people really need to research. One of the best drug sniffing dogs in America was a Pit Bull. Any of you heard of a dog by the name of Sergeant Stubby? Probably not because the media has never mentioned it to you.

I cannot begin to tell you how frustrating it is to me to see rap music videos have Pit Bulls in them. These dogs do not deserve that nor do they deserve to be owned by people who merely want them for their look.

As most of you know, I have.... well had two American Bulldogs. Now I just have one. People will say, "This is such a cute pit bull." I don't mind if they think it's a pit bull. I will tell you this, any bully breed needs a massive amount of attention. I'm a very outgoing person and I did my research before even owning a dog and that's why I decided to go with that breed. I won't say, "My dog would never bite anyone!" It's an animal and is unpredictable. Owners have to realize that no amount of training will keep a dog or any animal from biting for that matter. It's a risk dog owners take.

Funny story, in my previous home, I kept my dogs in the garage. My dog Milo was very smart. He saw me a few times hit the garage door button. I came home after work one day to the garage wide open and both dogs gone. I freaked. Like I said, all dogs are unpredictable. The youngest was 4 months and the time and I saw her playing with a girl about 8. She was just a pup. I called the Sheriff and they said they had my other dog up at the vet getting ready to scan his chip. I went up there and the sheriff was being licked to death by my dog and she was loving it. She saw me get out of my car in dress clothes (still in work clothes) She proceeds to tell me, "Wow! You're not the typical owner of bully breeds I'm use to. Your dog is so sweet. He was up by the highway and I got the pole out and opened the door and I didn't even need to put the pole on. He just jumped right in and sat the whole way up to the vet." Anyways, she didn't give me a ticket or anything because she saw it was a freak accident and I was a responsible owner. I still felt horrible for them getting out. The garage door button then was put about 4ft higher on the wall.

I read the article about the person who was attacked by 3 pit bulls. My first thought was, "Why in the hell would you own three pit bulls?!" I had my hands full with two and I could never imagine adding another to that mix. Just no way I could give that much attention for a dog who needs it. I'm content with one now and it will stay that way for a while and probably forever.

 

[Scat]

I cannot begin to tell you all how stupid the phrase, "Pit Bulls were bred to kill or attack" is. Really? So you mean to tell me that if I buy a chocolate lab or any lab for that instance that I can just shoot a duck and that dog will know to go retrieve the duck and bring it back to me without any training at all? Given that they are mostly "bred" to duck hunt? Give me a break.

Chocolate labs have webbed feet allowing them to retrieve fowl from the water. Hunting dogs know how to point without ever being trained. Bloodhounds use their nose very well without needing to be trained to track. Certain breeds are very loyal and protective without needing to be trained. There are certain qualities bred into dogs through selective breeding that enhance specific bahaviours. If you think that aggressiveness and specific physical traits have not been enhanced in pitbulls you're awfully naive.

Back in the early 80's when pitbulls were just starting to become all the rage a lot of the smaller cities, like Taylorsville at the time, did not have animal control facilities and the county did not work with unincorporated cities in providing animal control. My wife and I worked at a vet clinic in Taylorsville. When the cops had a rogue dog that needed to be put down they'd bring them to the vet clinic. Of course the owners would always show up begging for the dog not to be put down. Hands down, pits were the most common breed brought in. I can't tell you how many times I heard, "This isn't like my dog. He's so gentle and kind. He's never attacked another dog in his life. I just don't understand it. The other dog must have attacked him first." Actually, every dog owner has this same defense but that's another issue. As has been mentioned by several posters in this thread, pits are unpredictable even when raised in the best of environments and we all agree that a good number of them are raised in anything but.

I would never own a pit because no matter how good natured they may be, they are a timebomb waiting to go off. You might make it through the dogs entire life without incident but all it takes is one rampage for your world to change forever all because you want to defend a breed that was bred for one purpose and you think you can overcome decades of breeding with kindness.

Scorpion had lived on the East side of the river valley for his entire life, and as he reached his second year, he asked himself what might await on the other side. Now as we all know, scorpions are unable to swim…

Scorpion approached the bank of the river with dismay, seeing no easy way to cross the river. He searched up and down, but the rainy season had left the river bed far too high for any exposed rock to act as a bridge. Scorpion considered crafting a makeshift raft, but we are all too aware of scorpions’ carpentry skills.

Alas, his plight seemed all but hopeless until he happened upon a lonely frog sitting calmly by the river. Scorpion approached carefully, so as not to frighten the frog, but scorpions are a fearful creature after all and the frog withdrew into the water.

Scorpion yelled to the frog, “Frog, I am Scorpion and I would like to cross the river, but I cannot swim! Can I hop on your back and ride across?”

The frog responded suspiciously, “But you are a scorpion? How am I to know that you will not just sting me?”

Scorpion thought hard about how he could prove his innocence to the frog. Perhaps some logic would do the trick! “My dear frog, if I were to sting you, I would be left in the middle of the river to drown, for as you know, I cannot swim!”

Scorpion’s words were enough to convince the frog, so he agreed to ferry Scorpion across the river. The frog swam to the bank and allowed Scorpion to climb atop his back. Scorpion’s claws dug into the frog’s back, but the frog was still one to help his fellow animal.

As the frog began swimming across the river, he considered whether this would be the start of a lifelong friendship between him and Scorpion. He wondered if Scorpion might return the favor by scaring away the stork on the West bank, who always troubled him so.

Just as the frog’s mind was wondering, he felt a sharp pain in his back. He quickly began to feel his limbs going numb and his swimming began to slow. He cried out to Scorpion, “Why have you stung me Scorpion? Now we are both going to drown here in the river!”

Scorpion replied simply, “Frog, I stung you because I am a scorpion.”

 

[kwb]

So if I buy a blood hound and see that a kid is missing up in the Uintahs, all I would have to do is get a kids shirt from his parents and tell my dog, "Find or search" and he would know exactly what to do without any training whatsoever? I'm sure.....

 

[Scat]

So if I buy a blood hound and see that a kid is missing up in the Uintahs, all I would have to do is get a kids shirt from his parents and tell my dog, "Find or search" and he would know exactly what to do without any training whatsoever? I'm sure.....

No. But that dog is equipped with the tools and breeding that if you took him to the Unitahs along with a poodle, the bloodhound would have a much greater chance of finding him. It's what they do. It's what has been bred into them. They may not perform that task as well as a trained bloodhound but it is there. You can't train him not to use his nose.

 

[kwb]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_Stubby

No potential for these dogs at all. Just bred to kill. Shoot them all in the head. They will all eventually go crazy right?

 

[Scat]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergeant_Stubby

No potential for these dogs at all. Just bred to kill. Shoot them all in the head. They will all eventually go crazy right?

That is not at all what I said. Your letting your emotions get the best of you. That's the problem discussing pits with people that own them. Their dog is always the perfect one.

 

[kwb]

That is not at all what I said. Your letting your emotions get the best of you. That's the problem discussing pits with people that own them. Their dog is always the perfect one.

I would never own a pit because no matter how good natured they may be, they are a timebomb waiting to go off....

Wrong.

Also, I don't own a pit. I own an American Bulldog but I guess your emotions got the best of you while reading my first post stating what kind of dog I own.

 

[Archie Moses]

I don't like Pittbull the singer although his Dr. Pepper commercial is catchy.

 

[kwb]

I don't like Pittbull the singer although his Dr. Pepper commercial is catchy.

It's ok Archie. Lindsay Lohan hates him too.

 

[LogGrad98]

I am impressed. Salty actually posted a link that attempted to prove something not just make a claim. Good thing they don't dock pitbulls tails huh? Since it proved that docking tails could lead to increased aggression.

Unfortunately, the same article tried to loop in ear cropping without any evidence for it. Just a "well if tails do that, so will ears" with nothing to support it. Go read the study they link to, it says nothing about ears, just tails. Here is another look at that study:

https://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=64bb6ba6-3b23-4da9-9466-abd1a6f2587c

So, Reimchen surmises, if a puppy's tail is cut off when it's two or three days old, as is often done by breeders of such dogs as Doberman pinschers and Rottweilers for purely cosmetic reasons, it's possible that that puppy's experiences with other dogs will be affected for the rest of its life. And that could lead to the dog becoming more remote and aggressive.

Reimchen hypothesized that if a dog lacks a tail, arguably the most important communication tool it has when it comes to relating to other dogs, its behaviour could be negatively affected.

Ok so now we all know, docking tails = possibly a more aggressive dog. Oh and we have a claim that cropping the ears might be similar to docking tails, although again nothing beyond a claim. We still have no proof that ear cropping makes the dog a BETTER fighter or more FEROCIOUS, not to mention any proof at all that the INTENT of an owner to do this is to make his dog a better fighter or more ferocious. You could, I suppose, argue that aggression = ferocity, but in the case of my pomeranian, he is very aggressive, but I would by no stretch call him ferocious. As soon as the fight is on, he turns tail and runs.

So where is the proof that cropping ears makes a dog more FEROCIOUS and a BETTER FIGHTER.

I highlighted those last 2 because all you have proven so far is that docking tails is bad (agreed), which they do NOT do to pitbulls, and that in the PAST bulls had cropped ears to protect them in a fight. Nothing to prove that intent in modern times, nor to prove your claims that I highlighted.

I did like your attempt to further your stereotype by adding in the hick commentary. Nice ad hominem. Proves nothing, but it’s a nice touch.

 

[Scat]

I would never own a pit because no matter how good natured they may be, they are a timebomb waiting to go off....

And that equates to putting a bullet in their head how?