White Privilege VS POC Disadvantage

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Thanks twinkle toes!

Anyone else want to challenge me on the Miss Piggy thing? Do you think she’s playing a Caucasian, or a person of color?

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

If Miss Piggy is too abstract for you, then what about Ben Carson? Or Candace Owens? Or OJ Simpson?

POC put on that mask all the time. They perform as “whites”, and it gives them the privilege in question.

 

[Zombie]

Encouragment is wrong? Thats what I'm talking about. Focusing on being under privileged helps nothing. Telling people they are better than their perceived privilege is positive. These people are better and stronger than their lack of privilege.

Again, you're responding to points I'm not making. Of course everyone should be encouraged that they can fulfill their own potential. I'm saying white privilege isn't systemic because they are told otherwise. And the notion of white privilege doesn't mean that anyway. It's about recognizing the wide varieties of societal factors, some intentional others not, that put POC in a disadvantaged position from birth. We can't strive to end these disadvantages if we don't recognize their existence in the first place.

 

[JazzyFresh]

And the notion of white privilege doesn't mean that anyway. It's about recognizing the wide varieties of societal factors, some intentional others not, that put POC in a disadvantaged position from birth. We can't strive to end these disadvantages if we don't recognize their existence in the first place.

I recognize it, never said otherwise but as
I've said from the very beginning recognition chances absolutely nothing. Me, you, JazzGal all recognize it's existence but that doesn't change a single thing. We're(I'm) still privileged and POC are still systematically oppressed. My being privileged changes nothing.

 

[Zombie]

I recognize it, never said otherwise but as
I've said from the very beginning recognition chances absolutely nothing. Me, you, JazzGal all recognize it's existence but that doesn't change a single thing. We're(I'm) still privileged and POC are still systematically oppressed. My being privileged changes nothing.

Well, if you don't do anything about it sure. If on the other hand you consider your own biases and try to correct them you may just become a better person.

You could also support policies which aim to correct societies ills that contribute to white privilege.

 

[JazzyFresh]

Well, if you don't do anything about it sure. If on the other hand you consider your own biases and try to correct them you may just become a better person.

You could also support policies which aim to correct societies ills that contribute to white privilege.

Things like high employment rate for minorities? What about prison reform?
Illegal immigration is known to hurt legal minorities by pushing down wages. Abortion kills how many black people a day keeping minority status dropping even further. Welfare systems that keep people from working and making a life of their own. What about the complete lack of talking about inner city gun violence while elected officials on both sides thrive off that systematic ********? Homelessness in California and Hawaii?

Hell yeah I'm privileged. I do not support systems and policies that keep these poor people poor and under privileged. I know you all will disagree and scoff at this post but thats my honest beliefs. is there more I can do and change? Of course.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

There are not enough women or POC in Congress to pass anything on their own. It still is a white man's game.

The definition of white privilege shouldn't be vague and obtuse if people actually learn a little history and interact with POC. "Inherent advantages possessed by a white person on the basis of their race in a society characterized by racial inequality and injustice" is not really a difficult concept.

Sent from my moto z3 using JazzFanz mobile app

Okay, but I would argue then that class is far more deterministic than race. To be more specific, here are a few predictors of success that will index much higher than a generic factor like the color of one's skin. (Again, this assumes that people have a fairly common definition of what 'success' means.)

1) Parents are multi-millionaires. As 90% of wealth is inherited (or at least it was in the 90s when I studied sociology), it's a tremendous advantage to have wealth in the family. Wealth truly can open doors and connect a person with other wealthy peers, thereby creating compounding opportunities.

2) Attend an expensive private school for grades 8-12 in New York, New England or the San Francisco peninsula. There exists a class system in the U.S., and expensive private schools and boarding schools are designed, in part, to divide the wealthy families of name and means from the rest of us.

3) Attend an Ivy League college or elite school in California, like Stanford, Caltech or Harvey Mudd.

Any person who achieves the above probably, whether they're white or any other color, has at least a 50% chance of becoming very well off. And if not, they can inherit money from their family and figure out what to do with it later.

Now let me give you a counter example...
** Lets say there is a person of 'color'--maybe black, maybe hispanic, maybe Korean.
** Lets say this person comes from a single-parent family of working-class income.
** Lets say that this person has an average-level IQ. S/he's able to work, but is not a high achiever in school.
** Lets say that this person lives in a mid-size city with some economic opportunity, but not a ton of upward mobility.
** This person gets offered jobs at places like UPS, restaurants, as an office assistant, etc.

What is it that you would like to do, or see done, to help this person achieve more?

 

[One Brow]

Have you read “White Rage” or “Just Mercy?” These books changed my perspectives drastically. If you ache, what did you think of them? The podcast, “The Daily” had a fantastic episode on school busing that was incredibly insightful.

I have not read them. I picked up a lot where I was raised, and have read various columns/blogs over the years to help me put it into words.

 

[One Brow]

You can't even answer when I asked what can I do to make a change

I did answer. I said I don't live your life, so I don't know what your situation and opportunities are. You probably wouldn't want me to dig into your life that deeply.

You know who does live your life? You do. Be aware. Look around carefully. Listen and read skeptically.Perhaps you'll never have an opportunity to make a large difference, but the odds are pretty good you can make a few small differences over the course of the year. Many people making small differences (kind or understanding words, courtesies, etc.) is in some ways more important that the few who make large differences. For one recent example from my life, on a windy day, I saw a train ticket fly out of a black guy's hand right before the train came. It was easy to see how upset he was, so I told him that if we were asked to present tickets, I would tell the officer what I saw. He visibly relaxed. Most white people just would not have been that upset about it to begin with. The small actions matter.

I never said I didn't want change. That's just you putting words in my mouth and trying to make me a bad guy. I care for everybody but admitting I'm privileged changes nothing.

I agreed the admission, in and of itself, changes nothing. It's what you do in response that makes the change. However, no one else can tell you what to do.

 

[One Brow]

Thanks twinkle toes!

Anyone else want to challenge me on the Miss Piggy thing? Do you think she’s playing a Caucasian, or a person of color?

I don't disagree that she's playing a Caucasian, in the sense that we assume any puppet who has not put on specific ethnic characteristics is playing Caucasian. So, it's really our assumptions about Miss Piggy that make her Caucasian.

 

[One Brow]

POC put on that mask all the time. They perform as “whites”, and it gives them the privilege in question.

Except, it only grants them partial privilege. They never have full acceptance, and get no tolerance for error.

 

[One Brow]

Things like high employment rate for minorities? What about prison reform?

Personally encourage the hiring of minorities, and support prison reform.

Illegal immigration is known to hurt legal minorities by pushing down wages.

Playing one minority group off another is not helpful.

Abortion kills how many black people a day keeping minority status dropping even further.

It's much easier to build wealth with a small family than a large one. Fewer children improves status.

Welfare systems that keep people from working and making a life of their own.

Welfare doesn't stop anyone from working, unless the job is so low-paying welfare is actually better. If more jobs were unionized, getting them would be better than welfare.

What about the complete lack of talking about inner city gun violence while elected officials on both sides thrive off that systematic ********?

I hear about inner city gun violence all the time. What do you think are the solutions?

Homelessness in California and Hawaii?

So, support more public housing projects, right?

Hell yeah I'm privileged. I do not support systems and policies that keep these poor people poor and under privileged.

Good. I welcome you to the side of the liberals.

I know you all will disagree and scoff at this post but thats my honest beliefs. is there more I can do and change? Of course.

I prefer well-studied solutions to honest beliefs. They work better.

 

[One Brow]

What is it that you would like to do, or see done, to help this person achieve more?

For a start, be offered entry-level management positions at the same rate white people with similar background are.

 

[checkbookdoc]

Methinks many don’t want to admit that they’ve been blessed with white (male) privilege, because doing so would admit that they were born on third base.

This is a good example of what I was talking about in the OP. I actually agree with the entire idea of this post, but it is phrased in a way that discredits the achievements of whites (males). I think this idea could have been communicated in a way that does not diminishing the hardships of anyone and is therefore less divisive. Sticking with a baseball metaphor, you could have instead suggested something like "POC automatically start off with a strike". Furthermore, saying whites started on third base suggests that the fair solution is to take away good things from them, as opposed to elevating all people up to the same level.

Did you consciously select a phrasing that discredits white males and suggests they should have a harder life? If you did do this on purpose, why? If not, why do you think that you defaulted to these concepts/phrasings?

My interest is sincere. I am not trying to pick a fight or dismiss the importance and reality of inequality issues.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

I don't disagree that she's playing a Caucasian, in the sense that we assume any puppet who has not put on specific ethnic characteristics is playing Caucasian. So, it's really our assumptions about Miss Piggy that make her Caucasian.

The white construct works the same way, and on the same assumptions.

We assume, for instance, that it is reasonable and right to put Germans, Brits, and French under the same canopy of “white” as if these people are the same.

They are not.

 

[checkbookdoc]

And no one is claiming that there are not other forms of prejudices and hardships. But why do white people get upset about this one in particular? It's not a personal failing by having benefited from a system that is in place.

My OP is trying to get at one of the reasons why people get upset with this topic. White privilege is typically presented in a way that discredits the achievements and struggles of whites, rather than recognizing the disadvantages and injustices faced by others. A version of this is seen in your last sentence where you discuss "benefiting" from a system rather than not having been "hindered" by the system. In other words, white privilege is often presented as a way to achieve equality by diminishing whites, instead of by elevating everyone to the same level. I appreciate and believe in the importance of recognizing the concept of white privilege, I just wish it was phrased and discussed a little differently. I know that with my own friends and family this more sensitive phrasing has been useful in helping them.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

Except, it only grants them partial privilege. They never have full acceptance, and get no tolerance for error.

What you are identifying here is the white hierarchy, which begins with the Royals and ends with POC who pass as “white”. The attributes of sycophancy is unavoidable once you accept and enter into a hierarchy.

So they get what they trade themselves for.

As long as we continue to utilize this construct, elites will remain at the top. And the poorest Caucasians among us will continue to settle for the narcotic scraps of supposed “white supremacy”.

But the term “white privileged”, even if it is accurate on the privilege part, is rendered ridiculous by the construct. It will always be easy to refute because of the hierarchy that “whiteness” creates in the first place.

Why? Because the poor are in perpetual crisis mode and cannot see past their own trauma.

The “white” construct offers them an opiate of identity, completely tied to nationalism. It is the first thing we should destroy if we want true equality and equity.

 

[gandalfe]

The best simple description of privilege I've read, that makes people understand it, was by John Scalzi.

In the role playing game known as The Real World, “Straight White Male” is the lowest difficulty setting there is.

https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

If you are that offended by the term white privilege you need to work on your white fragility

 

[One Brow]

Did you consciously select a phrasing that discredits white males and suggests they should have a harder life? If you did do this on purpose, why? If not, why do you think that you defaulted to these concepts/phrasings?

My interest is sincere. I am not trying to pick a fight or dismiss the importance and reality of inequality issues.

The reason that sports metaphors are so rampant in this discussion is that, for many, this is a competition. Ultimately, it does not matter whether people see this as taking something away from whites or helping blacks. Both will be met with about the same amount of resistance.