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Why are the Spurs on pace to win 72 games, yet the Jazz are floundering again?

H

Highpointer

New Member
Why did the San Antonio Spurs improve so much, yet the Jazz are again not likely to win the NBA championship? The Spurs, who finished the regular season last year with a 50-32 record and were swept in the second round by the Phoenix Suns, have improved so much that they are on pace to win 72 games, tying the 1995-1996 Chicago Bulls for best regular-season record in NBA history.

The Jazz, on the other hand, have only the fourth-best record in the Western Conference. Teams that finish that low in their conference almost never win the NBA championship. I don't recall any recent examples except for the 1994-1995 Houston Rockets who had the six-best record in the Western Conference, but they were the defending champions so for a defending champion the regular season doesn't matter much as long as they win enough to make the playoffs.

Therefore, why does it appear to me that the Jazz are again not going to win the NBA championship, while the Spurs are now likely on their way to win their fifth NBA championship since 1999? Why have the Spurs been so much more successful than the Jazz? Is it because Popovich is a far superior coach than Sloan, or are other reasons more important?

I am a Jazz fan, but it is getting tiresome to see another season go by without an NBA championship for the Jazz while watching the Lakers or Spurs win another NBA championship.
 
The Jazz are on pace to win 56 games. That's hardly "floundering" in this league. And they are doing it with six guys on the roster who weren't here last season.

The Spurs are immensely talented, have good chemistry from being together forever, and are well coached. That goes a long way in this league. Plus they score the ball, they don't foul much, they share the ball well, they rebound well (something the Jazz are very poor at), they're top 5 in FG% and 3PT%, and they're balanced. 9 guys on that team average 7+ PPG, and almost all those guys have played just about every game. I think they'll come down to earth a bit, but those ageless wonders have shown they got something left in the tank.
 
The Spurs have had most of their pieces together for a few years and have been hit by the injury bug for a few years in a row now. Despite the injuries they have still been an elite team. Now they are healthy and their rolling. Nothing surprising here (except their old guys are not injured again) in that they have had elite talent for a while now. The Jazz are better now than they have been and they have more talent now than they have for a while. However it takes time to incorporate that talent and the Jazz still have some pieces yet to fill.
 
The big 3 are healthy, RJ is a solid player who has gotten more comfortable in their system, their key role players like Hill and Blair are getting better, and new guys like Splitter and Neal are contributing nicely.
 
Also looks like Spurs have played the least number of games on road of any team right now.
That may be another reason they have best record.
 
Highpointer said:
Therefore, why does it appear to me that the Jazz are again not going to win the NBA championship, while the Spurs are now likely on their way to win their fifth NBA championship since 1999? Why have the Spurs been so much more successful than the Jazz? Is it because Popovich is a far superior coach than Sloan?
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Yes.
 
- Spurs' key players have been able to stay healthy. Health matters.
- Their new inserted offensive scheme has been great all year long but they tend to be too much dependent on outside shooting.
- Pops is just a great coach, the transition process from a slow half-court offense to this news offensive mentality has been as smooth as possible, it has everything to do with his coaching.
- Most important reason for the recent success of Spurs and the smooth transition is the overperforming of Spurs bench. The Spurs bench is one of the least paid benches but still they are the best performing bench so far this season. Like I said, they can become over-dependent on three point shooting and aside from Duncan, there's nobody upfront who you can rely on in tough situations. The magnificent show of bench have allowed Pops to keep his key players' PT averages at low limits. That's a luxury. The Jazz, for the record, have not had that luxury at all. I have major concerns about possible worn outs of Deron, Paul, who are playing enormous mins, in nearly every crucial moments.
- Schedule: The Spurs have had 21 home games, there are 42 home games in a season. Look out for the SAS record during Rodeo Trip.

Spurs seem to be destined to get 1st seed this year, and that's why the Jazz should do whatever they can to get a top3 seed, which will eventually reveal a Spurs-Lakers WCSemis matchup. Nothing like seeing one of your most dangerous opponents getting eleminated.
 
gregbroncs said:
The Spurs have had most of their pieces together for a few years and have been hit by the injury bug for a few years in a row now. Despite the injuries they have still been an elite team. Now they are healthy and their rolling. Nothing surprising here (except their old guys are not injured again) in that they have had elite talent for a while now. The Jazz are better now than they have been and they have more talent now than they have for a while. However it takes time to incorporate that talent and the Jazz still have some pieces yet to fill.
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they're
 
Highpointer said:
...why does it appear to me that the Jazz are again not going to win the NBA championship, while the Spurs are now likely on their way to win their fifth NBA championship
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To me it appears you actually had legitimate expectations that the Jazz would win an NBA championship this season. And if you want to bet $ on the Spurs winning it all let me know.
 
Nate505 said:
The Jazz are on pace to win 56 games. That's hardly "floundering" in this league. And they are doing it with six guys on the roster who weren't here last season.
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Yay. Another 2nd round exit. What a wonderful season. Glad we didn't flounder. I sure hope we can get 18 or 20 more just like this. Oh wait, we already have.

Our formula does not work like the Spurs formula. Pop is several notches above Sloan and they are better at incorporating dissimilar players. They take solid players and build around what they can do. We take a round system and try to hammer square peg players into it, often taking lower caliber players in our effort to find players that "play hard" and that can fit into the system. How often do you hear anything about some new player on the Spurs needing time to "learn the system"? Last couple of years the Spurs floundered due to near season-ending injuries to key guys. We just can't get everyone playing within the system.

Don't get me wrong, I think Sloan gets a lot out of his players, and the Jazz system works to keep them competitive, but I am losing faith that this system or this coach can get us any further than competitive.
 
How about this. The Spurs starting 5 is better at every position except the Point Guard Spot then our Roster and there pointguard isn't bad by any means.
 
Do the Jazz have anyone like Tim Duncan? They had to tank (yes they did) a season and then get lucky in the lottery to get him.
Let's see what Pop would have done with the jazz players over the ten years and what Sloan would have done with the Spurs players
over the 10 years.
Oh wait, that is impossible to do, isn't it. So why is it possible to say that Pop is a superior coach?

We aren't even at the halfway point of the season and so many of you are crying like rockets fans. If you can't enjoy a season like
this, then why are you a fan?

Jazz haven't improved? What was our record at this time last year? Have we ever been 11-5 on the road?
 
-Gregg Popovich is the best coach to ever coach IMO
-Tim Duncan is the best player since the '84 and '85 classes IMO
-Manu Ginobili is the best SG since Jordan, IMO, and is healthy again
-Richard Jefferson is playing this year like he was supposed to last year
-Their stars are unselfish
-Having Pop, Duncan, Manu, Parker, and Jefferson, the rest of the pieces collectively just need to be smart, not screw up, shoot the ball, defend, and rebound. They do exactly that, the Spurs role players collectively do exactly what you'd want them to

If Jefferson didn't suck last year and it didn't take a couple of years to get Manu back to health, they'd probably have 2 more championships than they do. The San Antonio Spurs are the team that everyone wishes they were. They run into bad luck like any other team, but from top-to-bottom, they outclass everyone in the NBA (The Lakers don't embody "class" by a longshot, nor do the Celtics).
 
craig2112 said:
So why is it possible to say that Pop is a superior coach?
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Why is it wrong to say that a coach other than your own is better? Popovich has had better teams and a better FO, but where Pop wins the tie-breaker is that Pop is a strategist that does his homework before and after games, but is also masterful in adjusting on the fly. Sloan's methods have been successful, but no one can seriously tell me that Sloan is a strategist. Philosopher, de facto motivator, architect, sure. But he plays checkers while Pop and Jackson play chess (and yes, they have better players).
 
craig2112 said:
Do the Jazz have anyone like Tim Duncan? They had to tank (yes they did) a season and then get lucky in the lottery to get him.
Let's see what Pop would have done with the jazz players over the ten years and what Sloan would have done with the Spurs players
over the 10 years.
Oh wait, that is impossible to do, isn't it. So why is it possible to say that Pop is a superior coach?

We aren't even at the halfway point of the season and so many of you are crying like rockets fans. If you can't enjoy a season like
this, then why are you a fan?

Jazz haven't improved? What was our record at this time last year? Have we ever been 11-5 on the road?
Click to expand...

Did Pop ever have a Malone and Stockton together on the court for year after year, and not do something with them? Did the Spurs fail to acquire the players to put around their hall-of-famers to get the most out of the team? No he took his hall of fame players to the championship level. Say what you want about Jordan spoiling our party, but what about the other 16 years Malone and Stockton were together?

And why is this forum so polarized all the time? Wow it is like american politics have infiltrated. "If you are not a walks-on-water, omniscient, perfected-being democrat you are an ogre-ish, stupid beyond human comprehension, conniving, evil, spawn of satan republican." - and vice versa. Same goes here. If you are not totally in love with player X and cannot see that he is perfection personified you are a "hater" who cannot think beyond the end of your pointy nose and you should "log out of life".

It is entirely possible to enjoy every game of every season of Jazz basketball, even being able to recognize and enjoy moments of good plays in losses, while being dissatisfied with the whole of it and the direction we are headed. It is completely reasonable, especially as fans whose money supports the team, to expect a better product all while enjoying the product we now get. I really like my car and will likely buy another when this one is ready to be sold or traded in. But I still find things about it I hope they change, that would make for a better experience.

I really like the Jazz and have been following them closely since 1983 (yes before stock and malone), but there are things I wish they would change to make it a better product and get us closer to the ultimate goal.

Nothing unreasonable about that.
 
craig2112 said:
Do the Jazz have anyone like Tim Duncan? They had to tank (yes they did) a season and then get lucky in the lottery to get him.
Let's see what Pop would have done with the jazz players over the ten years and what Sloan would have done with the Spurs players
over the 10 years.
Oh wait, that is impossible to do, isn't it. So why is it possible to say that Pop is a superior coach?

We aren't even at the halfway point of the season and so many of you are crying like rockets fans. If you can't enjoy a season like
this, then why are you a fan?

Jazz haven't improved? What was our record at this time last year? Have we ever been 11-5 on the road?
Click to expand...
I pretty much agree with you and I understand the OP frustration about not winning a ring. However not sure bringing up last year helps their argument, the Jazz had a better record and a better seed, also both made it to the 2nd round despite injuries to 2 Jazz starters.
Now last year the spurs people have said injuries already but also they had some roster turnover and incorporating RJ. Sound familiar, yes the Jazz are going through that this year half the roster was not on the team last year and AJ is being incorporated into the team. All this and the Jazz actually have a better record then last year.
Now I don't know how or what this means for next year but I'm enjoying the ride.
 
LogGrad98 said:
Did Pop ever have a Malone and Stockton together on the court for year after year, and not do something with them? Did the Spurs fail to acquire the players to put around their hall-of-famers to get the most out of the team? No he took his hall of fame players to the championship level. Say what you want about Jordan spoiling our party, but what about the other 16 years Malone and Stockton were together?

And why is this forum so polarized all the time? Wow it is like american politics have infiltrated. "If you are not a walks-on-water, omniscient, perfected-being democrat you are an ogre-ish, stupid beyond human comprehension, conniving, evil, spawn of satan republican." - and vice versa. Same goes here. If you are not totally in love with player X and cannot see that he is perfection personified you are a "hater" who cannot think beyond the end of your pointy nose and you should "log out of life".

It is entirely possible to enjoy every game of every season of Jazz basketball, even being able to recognize and enjoy moments of good plays in losses, while being dissatisfied with the whole of it and the direction we are headed. It is completely reasonable, especially as fans whose money supports the team, to expect a better product all while enjoying the product we now get. I really like my car and will likely buy another when this one is ready to be sold or traded in. But I still find things about it I hope they change, that would make for a better experience.

I really like the Jazz and have been following them closely since 1983 (yes before stock and malone), but there are things I wish they would change to make it a better product and get us closer to the ultimate goal.

Nothing unreasonable about that.
Click to expand...

Well said.
 
Gregg Popovich.

This off season, Popovich took all of his assistants on a get-a-way trip to discuss revamping the teams offense. It was just him and the assistants. They changed the offense from going through Tim Duncan to a motion offense. It's well documented. All of Popovich's changes over the years are well documented. The changes he made, personally, once Parker and Ginobilli were drafted, to the physical changes and personality changes he went through as he understood that he could no longer coach as if he were coaching players from the golden era.

Popovich has always been and will continue to be light years ahead of Sloan.

He is the reason the Spurs are playing like they are.
 
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