Why are the Spurs on pace to win 72 games, yet the Jazz are floundering again?

[franklin]

Not to mention Stockton-Malone played in the era that delivered the Dream Team. Dream. There were so damned many excellent players that it's hard to blame it all on Sloan or Jordan. And S&M weren't the only top 50 of all time to fail to win a ring.

Along comes Shaq and Kobe right after the Jazz were done battling Jordan. It's a tough league, but back to our regularly scheduled Sloan hate...

 

[vj_74]

Not sure you can say that Houston was clearly better in both cases. In 1995, Jazz had better record and were higher seed but lost in first round to Houston. Had David Benoit made his 3 point shot, things might have turned out quite differently. Jazz lost in Conference Finals in 94 and in 92 to Portland (who I believe lost to Bulls).

Jazz and Sloan have had chances, probably best was '95, but failed to capitalize. It wasn't just Jordan. So to say that Jordan the reason for never winning it appears to me to be clearly false.

It is not quite false. The two times the Jazz came closest to winning a ring were in 97 and 98, and it was Jordan who stopped them. You cant cite losing in the first round or conference sem-finals in previous years as legit chances. Because those losses only show that there were teams who were actually better than us. Would you say we had a legit chance in 2006-2007 just because we went to WCF? Or even last season?
Whereas in 97//98 Jordan by himself made all the difference.

 

[vj_74]

1988: Frank Layden had Stock-Malone challenging the showtime Magic Johnson-Jabbar Lakers, losing 4-3 in the semifinals. Sloan takes over in 89 and the Jazz take a humiliating first round loss to the Warriors, 0-3. Sloan set them back 10 years. Sloan continues to be a very very good regular season coach who shows not a clue as to how to set his team up to win a ring. Facts if facts.

Sloan didnt set back anything. Jazz progressed every year he was the coach. Upsets happen to all teams. Even the Mavs lost to the Warriors in the first round in 2007 whch set up our playoffs run. The only fact here is Sloan brought the best out of his players most of the time. We overachieved in order to even get to the finals. Of course I dont expect a hater like you to understand that.
Quick, list all the players who were averaging 15ppg for the Jazz besides Malone , in 1998.
(Clue: Dont bother)

 

[franklin]

We overachieved in order to even get to the finals. Of course I dont expect a hater like you to understand that.
Quick, list all the players who were averaging 15ppg for the Jazz besides Malone , in 1998.
(Clue: Dont bother)

You can make the same argument for the Rockets and Hakeem Olajuwon in 1993 (if not his entire career). Olajuwon had nearly nothing to work with, and the first round loss showed this well. He didn't even have an assists guy to help out. Maxwell led the Rockets that season with 5.1. It took adding an additional scoring power in Drexler to take the Rockets from a first round exit to back-to-back championship seasons. The Jazz never really had a 2nd first option. Every championship team has either two first options or is extremely well rounded (Detroit 2004). Find an exception to this in the last 25 years.
(Clue: Don't bother)

 

[Chad Feldheimer]

Don't forget the 60 win 94-95 season when they had Stock,Malone & Horny all in their early 30s and lost in the first round to HOU who was the 6 seed. Watching Drexler & Kenny Smith along with Hakeem light them up.

 

[pbash]

Why did the San Antonio Spurs improve so much, yet the Jazz are again not likely to win the NBA championship? The Spurs, who finished the regular season last year with a 50-32 record and were swept in the second round by the Phoenix Suns, have improved so much that they are on pace to win 72 games, tying the 1995-1996 Chicago Bulls for best regular-season record in NBA history.

The Jazz, on the other hand, have only the fourth-best record in the Western Conference. Teams that finish that low in their conference almost never win the NBA championship. I don't recall any recent examples except for the 1994-1995 Houston Rockets who had the six-best record in the Western Conference, but they were the defending champions so for a defending champion the regular season doesn't matter much as long as they win enough to make the playoffs.

Therefore, why does it appear to me that the Jazz are again not going to win the NBA championship, while the Spurs are now likely on their way to win their fifth NBA championship since 1999? Why have the Spurs been so much more successful than the Jazz? Is it because Popovich is a far superior coach than Sloan, or are other reasons more important?

I am a Jazz fan, but it is getting tiresome to see another season go by without an NBA championship for the Jazz while watching the Lakers or Spurs win another NBA championship.

There is only one guy that has been here all these years. SLOAN!!!! Great coach but will never win, he doesnt have the balls to do the crazy things. Example: Hayward get playing time and is succesful, yet Sloan doesnt start him again HUH

 

[vslice02]

Don't forget the 60 win 94-95 season when they had Stock,Malone & Horny all in their early 30s and lost in the first round to HOU who was the 6 seed. Watching Drexler & Kenny Smith along with Hakeem light them up.

And what a pathetic Rockets team that was. You would've thought they were a championship team the way they looked against the Jazz.

 

[zman1527]

Sloan didnt set back anything. Jazz progressed every year he was the coach. Upsets happen to all teams. Even the Mavs lost to the Warriors in the first round in 2007 whch set up our playoffs run. The only fact here is Sloan brought the best out of his players most of the time. We overachieved in order to even get to the finals. Of course I dont expect a hater like you to understand that.
Quick, list all the players who were averaging 15ppg for the Jazz besides Malone , in 1998.
(Clue: Dont bother)

Yes, Sloan did set them back. How is challenging the eventual Champion in 7 games in 1988 to losing in the first round, badly, not a step backward? It is and you know it.

 

[NUMBERICA]

You can make the same argument for the Rockets and Hakeem Olajuwon in 1993 (if not his entire career). Olajuwon had nearly nothing to work with, and the first round loss showed this well. He didn't even have an assists guy to help out. Maxwell led the Rockets that season with 5.1. It took adding an additional scoring power in Drexler to take the Rockets from a first round exit to back-to-back championship seasons. The Jazz never really had a 2nd first option. Every championship team has either two first options or is extremely well rounded (Detroit 2004). Find an exception to this in the last 25 years.
(Clue: Don't bother)

I'm not sure if you or anyone else knows this or not, but Clyde Drexler didn't play on the '94 Rockets Championship team. And Malone had a ****-ton more help, for the record.

I'm not sure if my point is that Hakeem was just that much better than the Utah Jazz by himself or that Sloan wasn't good enough to win the chip. Hakeem was really, really ****ing great, though.

 

[vslice02]

Yes, Sloan did set them back. How is challenging the eventual Champion in 7 games in 1988 to losing in the first round, badly, not a step backward? It is and you know it.

Did you know Frank Layden stepped down as head coach in mid-season. How many coaches in the past 25 years have taken over a team in midseason and have advanced to the Western Conference Semifinals?
In Sloan's first 3 FULL seasons as head coach, the Jazz went from first-round, to 2nd-round, to the conference finals. Then the Jazz took a "step back" following that season - largely due to Mark Eaton's back giving out, before rebounding w/another trip to the conference finals.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

They only have one of the greatest PF in NBA history

 

[franklin]

I'm not sure if you or anyone else knows this or not, but Clyde Drexler didn't play on the '94 Rockets Championship team. And Malone had a ****-ton more help, for the record.

I'm not sure if my point is that Hakeem was just that much better than the Utah Jazz by himself or that Sloan wasn't good enough to win the chip. Hakeem was really, really ****ing great, though.

Yes, and I have a feeling you caught the point.

 

[freakazoid]

It is funny to see haters like zman bitching about Sloan in the middle of a good season. The Jazz have actually been overachieving these last 2 seasons. And this year, they have just one star and a bunch of other guys who look like just very good role players on most nights and they keep winning games.

Yeah yeah, we get it. Sloan lost to MJ twice. So what are we going to do about it?Nothing. Get the **** over it. For the kind of players we have had these past few years I cant imagine a better coach for this team. Maybe Popovich. Thats about it. It is'nt so bad to have the second or third best coach in the league coaching your team, you know. Unless otherwise you are a hater of course. There just is'nt a long list of coaches who would have come to the Jazz and won it all with the players we had.

But then keep bitching. It provided for some entertainment.

As a rabid VJ hater, all I can say is VJ is right, and Sloan is a GOD.

All hail VJ.

 

[LogGrad98]

Did you know Frank Layden stepped down as head coach in mid-season. How many coaches in the past 25 years have taken over a team in midseason and have advanced to the Western Conference Semifinals?
In Sloan's first 3 FULL seasons as head coach, the Jazz went from first-round, to 2nd-round, to the conference finals. Then the Jazz took a "step back" following that season - largely due to Mark Eaton's back giving out, before rebounding w/another trip to the conference finals.

I am not trolling or being sarcastic, but can you (or anyone) name a head coach who had 2 HALL-OF-FAMERS (not just good players, or all-stars, or first teamers, but HOF'ers) on their team for longer than 2 seasons who did not win at least one championship? I didn't look it up but I can't think of one, besides Sloan. I would be curious to know.

 

[freakazoid]

I am not trolling or being sarcastic, but can you (or anyone) name a head coach who had 2 HALL-OF-FAMERS (not just good players, or all-stars, or first teamers, but HO
F'ers) on their team for longer than 2 seasons who did not win at least one championship? I didn't look it up but I can't think of one, besides Sloan.

Good point.

Also, Can you name any player named CJ who DOESN'T suck?

Not me, I hate CJ.


Utah should trade.

I will be proven gene yus.

 

[gregbroncs]

As I said in my previous post, I concede that we lost it to the greatest player to ever play the game...ok fine there point taken.

Now explain why Sloan was unable to get us there the other 16 years we had 2 HOF'ers on our team?

He did not in any year have the most talented team. Maybe they should have won it the years that MJ retired but I still don't believe they had the most talent that year either.

 

[LogGrad98]

He did not in any year have the most talented team. Maybe they should have won it the years that MJ retired but I still don't believe they had the most talent that year either.

I agree, we did not have the most talented teams. But again that lies at least in part with Sloan. We have heard many times players who don't want to play for Sloan (that was what came out of the infamous "YOU go play in Utah" quote, if you remember). Also, we all know in this organization that Sloan has as much input as KOC in determining who to pick in the draft, who to go after in free agency, who to keep and who to let go.

I am not saying that Sloan is the entire reason for all our woes, but I think his time has run its course. I couldn't tell you who to bring in, but I think it is time for some new blood. How about Hornacek?

 

[7StraightIsGreat]

Getting back to the here and now: The Jazz may not be in that bad of a position.

First of all, the Spurs are not going to win 70 games. They're only getting older and while they've been healty all season long it's still early. Sooner or later some of they're major cogs are going to start missing time. Book it. Not to mention the favorable early schedule. Now don't get me wrong, Pop is better than Sloan but you can't run away from father time, and I think he gets the Spurs in the end.

Dallas has an aging Dirk who has already missed time this season. Now with Butler out for the year Dallas looks much more human than a couple of weeks ago. Is Dirk healthy enough to shake of the nagging injuries and carry the extra burden with Butler out? My guess is no.

The Lakers are having a strange year. Multiple losing streaks, grumblings from the locker room, etc. It really seems as if they are ripe for the taking.

Of course I'm looking at this from the point of view of everything breaking right for Utah, but they're younger than any of the other 3 teams. I think that gives them the best chance of staying healthy as the season progresses. And while Utah has started off the season pretty good, I think it's obvious that this team has yet to really gel. Looking at it that way, Utah has played their way into the 3 seed without even coming close to playing their best ball.

Even though I'm clearly a Jazz homer, I still think it's fair to say that Utah has the highest ceiling of improvement between now and the end of the season when compared with the Spurs, Mavs and Lakers.

 

[memo is money]

Getting back to the here and now: The Jazz may not be in that bad of a position.

First of all, the Spurs are not going to win 70 games. They're only getting older and while they've been healty all season long it's still early. Sooner or later some of they're major cogs are going to start missing time. Book it. Not to mention the favorable early schedule. Now don't get me wrong, Pop is better than Sloan but you can't run away from father time, and I think he gets the Spurs in the end.

Dallas has an aging Dirk who has already missed time this season. Now with Butler out for the year Dallas looks much more human than a couple of weeks ago. Is Dirk healthy enough to shake of the nagging injuries and carry the extra burden with Butler out? My guess is no.

The Lakers are having a strange year. Multiple losing streaks, grumblings from the locker room, etc. It really seems as if they are ripe for the taking.

Of course I'm looking at this from the point of view of everything breaking right for Utah, but they're younger than any of the other 3 teams. I think that gives them the best chance of staying healthy as the season progresses. And while Utah has started off the season pretty good, I think it's obvious that this team has yet to really gel. Looking at it that way, Utah has played their way into the 3 seed without even coming close to playing their best ball.

Even though I'm clearly a Jazz homer, I still think it's fair to say that Utah has the highest ceiling of improvement between now and the end of the season when compared with the Spurs, Mavs and Lakers.

could not agree more. right on the money...

 

[Gyp Rosetti]

Getting back to the here and now: The Jazz may not be in that bad of a position.

First of all, the Spurs are not going to win 70 games. They're only getting older and while they've been healty all season long it's still early. Sooner or later some of they're major cogs are going to start missing time. Book it. Not to mention the favorable early schedule. Now don't get me wrong, Pop is better than Sloan but you can't run away from father time, and I think he gets the Spurs in the end.

Dallas has an aging Dirk who has already missed time this season. Now with Butler out for the year Dallas looks much more human than a couple of weeks ago. Is Dirk healthy enough to shake of the nagging injuries and carry the extra burden with Butler out? My guess is no.

The Lakers are having a strange year. Multiple losing streaks, grumblings from the locker room, etc. It really seems as if they are ripe for the taking.

Of course I'm looking at this from the point of view of everything breaking right for Utah, but they're younger than any of the other 3 teams. I think that gives them the best chance of staying healthy as the season progresses. And while Utah has started off the season pretty good, I think it's obvious that this team has yet to really gel. Looking at it that way, Utah has played their way into the 3 seed without even coming close to playing their best ball.

Even though I'm clearly a Jazz homer, I still think it's fair to say that Utah has the highest ceiling of improvement between now and the end of the season when compared with the Spurs, Mavs and Lakers.

I agree though I think this year will be tough to beat out all those teams and a few in the Eastern Conference for the title. I would say the next two years though look more promising as Kobe, Artest, Duncan, Ginobili, Dirk and Co. become even older and we progress more. Hopefully.

That said, we can't bank on these teams fading away into oblivion. While they might some, we also need to improve. For me, Jefferson needs to improve the most. He needs to drastically improve his conditioning and fitness and come in like a beast next season, rebounding like he use to, elevating our frontcourt to another level, and giving us perhaps a more legit 2nd fiddle player. We also need the youngs like Miles, Hayward, and hopefully Fes if he's retained to improve. If this can all happen, and I actually think it can, I think we have a shot over the next five years to get a ring. Then, again, by that time, the Heat and Magic could become too formidable. Perhaps even OKC.