Why do the Jazz spend so much money/time on International scouting?

[ema]

^^ Yep.

Also Garbajosa came to mind from the Raptors.

 

[b_line]

Juan Carlos Navarro?

 

[ema]

I recall it one time. Can't remember his name. He was considered the best foreign player. Signed with the Pacers I think. He only lasted a few years.


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You might be thinking Jasikevičius. Yeah, he wasn't the best Euro for sure but one of the bests. A good example to see not every good Euro can fit the NBA.

Juan Carlos Navarro?

Apparently he was a second rounder drafted by the Wizards.

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

You might be thinking Jasikevičius. Yeah, he wasn't the best Euro for sure but one of the bests. A good example to see not every good Euro can fit the NBA.




Apparently he was a second rounder drafted by the Wizards.

That's the one I was thinking of.


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[Jazz Spazz]

Kobe Bryant

 

[Stifle Tower]

I remember one time when the jazz drafted this dude who nobody knew about, and he ended up playing for them for a while. He even had one all star season. He always had some crazy hair cuts and his wife sang some pop music and crap. Anybody remember his name? I think he was Russian. He might still be playing, iirc.

AK was a pretty well-known commodity. In Beantown's defense, I think he is wondering why all our scouting hasn't resulted in finding a relative unknown. For example, in this draft Exum and Saric wouldn't count as "finds": they're already projected as high 1st round picks. On the other hand, if the Jazz draft someone like Nurkic, Capela, Porzingis, Bogdanovic, Micic, Tavares, Inglis, etc., then you could credit their international scouting dept. for doing the groundwork. And if that pick became a solid rotation player, you could certainly say it was money well-spent. Although Gobert and Neto haven't become key parts of the rotation yet, I certainly think the potential is there. I'd have to say they were great value for where they were picked.

And I do agree with those who have pointed out Messina might be able to get Utah some international FA's. Not stars, but perhaps players who could round out the roster and contribute key skills. It would certainly beat filling backup slots with the likes of Tinsley, Lucas III, Bell, Elson, etc.

 

[addictionary]

So it is possible. OK, has it been done?

Sure. I recall a lot of players got transferred to an American team from Europe and the other way around.





Edit: but apparently I'm wrong. There is a necessity to get drafted at least once in order to play. I think this is a procedure that has not been sounded too loud when transferring some players.

Nowadays, they draft the player and let the time pass so he can be free of the rookie contract limits because his current earnings are higher and the NBA team has top it. I still have question marks on the matter out of insufficient examples though.

 

[bjunior]

not every european can make it in the nba

nba is tough place to live: hard schedule, faster tempo and more physical

shved (one of the best and talented sg in europe) survived this rhythm only a couple of months

jan vesely.. who is this?

mark my words: messina will struggle in the nba for the same reason that bodiroga would struggled, this place is just not for everyone

messina is talented of course, but he's more of a "romantic" person and nba needs more of a "get the job done" men

 

[illyasova]

San Antonio and Rockets are specialist about international scouting and this helps them to make right chemistry to succeed. It seems Morey's been searching for Dragic's brother at the moment

 

[Stifle Tower]

Edit: but apparently I'm wrong. There is a necessity to get drafted at least once in order to play. I think this is a procedure that has not been sounded too loud when transferring some players.

Nowadays, they draft the player and let the time pass so he can be free of the rookie contract limits because his current earnings are higher and the NBA team has top it. I still have question marks on the matter out of insufficient examples though.

Or at least to have declared for the draft unless they reach a certain age? For example, Teletovic declared in 2007, but went undrafted. Jasikevicius was also undrafted (1998). But Antic, according to what I've seen, never declared.

If I were an international player, I'd declare as soon as I could, even if I had little chance of being picked. That would make me a FA after the draft. Develop a few more years, then have the ability to sign with anyone. In the meantime, the rookie restrictions on pay are expiring.

 

[JimLes]

Or at least to have declared for the draft unless they reach a certain age? For example, Teletovic declared in 2007, but went undrafted. Jasikevicius was also undrafted (1998). But Antic, according to what I've seen, never declared.

You don't need to do anything. If you're an undrafted international player over the age of 22, you can sign a contract with any NBA team. Calderon is probably the best player of the past decade to go that route, but there are quite a few others.

 

[Stifle Tower]

You don't need to do anything. If you're an undrafted international player over the age of 22, you can sign a contract with any NBA team. Calderon is probably the best player of the past decade to go that route, but there are quite a few others.

Thanks for the update on the age. So it probably makes sense for a lot of int'l players to NOT declare. I wonder why some of the lesser ones do. Are players over 22 limited to any kind of pay scale under the new CBA or can they sign for whatever a team wants to pay them (subject, of course, to that teams available cap space or exceptions)?

 

[BTP]

Ask Mark Cuban and Peter Holt

 

[Kenwood]

No time to read everything, but here's my take. With only two picks per year (usually), the Jazz haven't drafted a significant number of players from any one source, be it a single college conference or Europe.

Scouting is about gathering information and being prepared to make the best decision when the time comes. It's entirely possible that the Jazz' Euro scouts were the reason they DIDN'T pick a Euro that they otherwise might have. If that guy turned out a bust, that's a win even though we'll never know about it.

 

[silesian]

Judge based on undrafted

I am more referring to getting International players to come over outside of using the draft.

Best undrafted foreign players of all time: Raja Bell. Calderon, Lin, Nocioni, Arroyo. Jj Barea, Azubuike

(Can you think of others?)

If you are judging DL based on finding hidden gems I really think the pickings are slim. The best you are going to get is role players.

 

[silesian]

Its happened a few times, Arvydas Sabonis was probably the most successful I believe.

Bad example. Sabonis was drafted twice. First was nullified because he was too young. Better recent example is Calderon.

 

[JimLes]

Thanks for the update on the age. So it probably makes sense for a lot of int'l players to NOT declare. I wonder why some of the lesser ones do. Are players over 22 limited to any kind of pay scale under the new CBA or can they sign for whatever a team wants to pay them (subject, of course, to that teams available cap space or exceptions)?

You can't not declare, though. When you turn 22, you become automatically eligible for that year's draft. Only if you don't get drafted that year are you free to sign with whomever you want like Antić or Teletović.

 

[NUMBERICA]

Another thread where Beantown biffs it and eats ****? Weird.

 

[ema]

I'd like to say a couple things about the future side of the subject.

The gap between the NBA and the rest is closing and the bridge between the NBA and the international basketball, especially the European Basketball, is getting stronger and wider increasingly, yet it's still not even a completed structure entirely. Coaching importation, for instance, is yet to begin and there are still biases and prejudices about Euroball. Average NBA fans still have little to no knowledge about Euroball while the whole world knows(deservedly) quiet a lot about the NBA.

I've got into an argument here on this forum in the past. People claimed the best players would be playing in the best league anytime and no matter what, meaning the NBA of course. If a player haven't played in the NBA, it's automatically assumed that he couldn't or he wasn't worthy. Many NBA fans think that way about the great European players of the past that didn't make it to the NBA. Which is not true at all, especially not true when there used to be thick curtains between the NBA and the rest of the basketball world. The NBA has seen great Euros nevertheless but God knows how many more Euros could be a part of the NBA history if the doors were open as of today.

So, if anything, it's the right time to spend time, money and effort to scout the outside of the NBA because it will get even more important in the near future as the international relationships getting deeper and the game itself continues to globalizing more and more the each day.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Great post, ECTYA.
There are MANY great international players who never came over. And I think we're now seeing instances of players becoming bigger stars in Europe and choosing more $ vs. coming over to the NBA and restarting their careers for a lot less money (like Tomic). Certainly style of play is also a factor, particularly in regards to bigs. But even that is changing in the NBA as the "stretch-4" is replacing the traditional PF (who are now becoming centers). Offensively, the game has opened up in the NBA since the 80's-90's, and that style favors the Euro game more and more.

I know it's a huge risk for Utah to hire Messina, and maybe the Millers have already decided to let some other team be the guinea pig, but I would love to see Utah break barriers with Ettore. The worldwide media attention would be phenomenal. Of course, the naysayers are going to point to his year 1 record, which will be underwhelming with a young team, and deem the experiment a failure. So maybe the first Euro coach does need to luck into a winning situation, or come in as an assistant and take over as a HC retires.