Why doesn't Utah have a Lottery?

[Bronco70]

I can see where you're coming from with this post, but for the record, I never said the Mormon church "controls" the state of Utah. Do I think Mormon influence's seep into our government and effect the outcome of many decisions made at the state level? Absolutley, and looking at it that way, I think it's more than fair to say that qualifies as a lack of seperation from church and state.

You're right, you never did use the word CONTROL. I put that word in your mouth. I did so because, to my way of thinking, separation of church and state is an issue of direct control of one by the other (and this works both ways). It isn't an issue of whether individuals allow their beliefs to influence their part in the formation of policy. So that's probably where our logic diverges.

Personally, I think the best legislators are those that can act in the true interest of their constituency, regardless of their personal feelings or prejudices. In a perfect world, we could vote in the people that were going to make all the right decisions.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

I can see where you're coming from with this post, but for the record, I never said the Mormon church "controls" the state of Utah. Do I think Mormon influence's seep into our government and effect the outcome of many decisions made at the state level? Absolutley, and looking at it that way, I think it's more than fair to say that qualifies as a lack of seperation from church and state.

It's also not just a Utah/LDS issue. This happens everywhere. The dry counties you mentioned in your prior post are usually the result of local bible thumpers who want to keep their county sin free in their eyes.

I have 2 comments on this. It is possible that most of the people that are represented, have been represented fairly. It's more likely that more is allowed than most people agree with.

You are trying to turn this into a religious issue, when it is a people issue. You cannot take religion out of the equation when it is a part of who people are. That's like telling you to forget all of your feelings for the LDS Church and or BYU, when choosing between similar jobs, one at BYU campus, and the other very similar and just as far away, but not there.

Lawmakers do need to base a large part of what goes on from the people they represent, but they also have to use their own life experience and moral compass to direct them. You cannot cut your religion from you when you make decisions, it is a part of you, not an article of clothing.

If you are saying Utah lawmakers need to listen more to the people they represent, I can agree with that, but you are turning "separation of church and state" into something that it is not. This phrase began early in our country's history and had to do more with religious freedom, and keeping the government out of regulating religion. Even if a church stands for certain principles, it is still up to the people to vote how they feel they should. This does not mean that any church should stop teaching what they stand for just because there is a law being voted on. The church does not get a vote, it is still the people that vote.

I don't think the separation you are looking for is realistic. The only way I see of you getting your private utopia is to move somewhere where most people agree with you.

 

[bigb]

I caught part of an interview with someone about this the last time the lottery hit a huge number (I think it was the AG, but can't say for sure). Basically, he said that since gambling is illegal in Utah, the lottery must be as well (as that is a form of gambling). He said they'd looked at bringing a lottery to Utah, but in the end decided that saying gambling is illegal except the state sponsored lottery would be a contradiction and hypocritical.

 

[colton]

So what if it comes from peoples' pockets? It's a voluntary tax. You don't have to buy a ticket, but those who do buy tickets contribute to the fund. Instead of raising everyone's taxes, why not allow this voluntary tax?

What's the motivation for having it?

 

[colton]

Mormons.

are awesome.

;-)

 

[SaltyDawg]

What's the motivation for having it?

All of the extra money that it would bring in. Plus the fact that this is America and people should be free to make their own choices.

Right now plenty of people already play the lottery, they just give their money to Idaho, Arizona, and Colorado instead of giving it to Utah.

 

[colton]

All of the extra money that it would bring in.

What does "bring in" mean? As I said above, this money doesn't come from nowhere. If you want extra money to fund things, it's simpler/more cost effective/less regressive to simply increase taxes.

Plus the fact that this is America and people should be free to make their own choices.

Right, and the majority of people in this state have made the choice that they don't want a state lottery. Are you saying you'd rather impose your choice on all of those people?

Right now plenty of people already play the lottery, they just give their money to Idaho, Arizona, and Colorado instead of giving it to Utah.

I suspect the amount of money leaving Utah for lotteries in other states is truly miniscule. Do you have any data on that?

 

[TroutBum]

What does "bring in" mean? As I said above, this money doesn't come from nowhere. If you want extra money to fund things, it's simpler/more cost effective/less regressive to simply increase taxes.

Right, and the majority of people in this state have made the choice that they don't want a state lottery. Are you saying you'd rather impose your choice on all of those people?

I suspect the amount of money leaving Utah for lotteries in other states is truly miniscule. Do you have any data on that?

Yes, because The People just love to have their taxes increased... I agree with you about the majority of people don't want it, and I believe that is the only real reason we don't have one. My second thought on it would be that perhaps the ins, outs, what-have-you's haven't actually been presented in a professional manner. That is, I bet if someone with some power actually put some facts together and presented them with a good argument, the people of Utah might change their minds. In 30 years I don't recall ever hearing any argument about a lottery.

 

[SaltyDawg]

What does "bring in" mean? As I said above, this money doesn't come from nowhere. If you want extra money to fund things, it's simpler/more cost effective/less regressive to simply increase taxes.

Why raise taxes if you don't have to? I'm sure most people would rather not pay any extra in taxes. And if anyone wants to pay more in taxes, nobody is stopping them.

Right, and the majority of people in this state have made the choice that they don't want a state lottery. Are you saying you'd rather impose your choice on all of those people?

Nobody would be forced to play the lottery. If the majority of this state was against it, they would not have to play. And I doubt the majority of this state is against it anyway. Most people don't care either way, while some want one and others are against it.

I suspect the amount of money leaving Utah for lotteries in other states is truly miniscule. Do you have any data on that?

I don't have any current data, but a few years ago I read that the stores selling the most Idaho lottery tickets were the ones on the Utah border.

 

[trigg3r]

It sure would be easier to get my lottery tickets if we had it. Maybe someday. Then again, probably not. I at least hope Trout and the wife had an enjoyable drive up to Idaho to buy their tickets. I will say it is a beautiful drive depending which way you go of course.

 

[TroutBum]

It sure would be easier to get my lottery tickets if we had it. Maybe someday. Then again, probably not. I at least hope Trout and the wife had an enjoyable drive up to Idaho to buy their tickets. I will say it is a beautiful drive depending which way you go of course.

We had fun. The kids got a little restless after a few hours, but it was enjoyable. We listened to a lot of Rammstein and there is some sort of weird awesomeness hearing both my 4 year old and 1 year old singing in German.

 

[aybars]

640 million dollars,,thats sick,,bigest lotery win in europe was 129 million euro..it was in 2010,and someone in italy won it.italian maffia still looking for the winner,,to get their cut

 

[GVC]

Every other state lottery is a redistribution of wealth from their state to Utah through federal income taxes. We're one of the few states smart enough to not take a huge chunk of our local economy and export it to the Treasury. It's much more beneficial to get the money through tax revenues than to lock up a couple hundred million inside one pocket while taking 35%+ of that money out of your economy.

Apparently all the morons in this thread missed this brilliant post by Franklin.

Morons...

 

[TroutBum]

Apparently all the morons in this thread missed this brilliant post by Franklin.

Morons...

I didn't miss it, but to be honest, I figured the 42 states that have lotteries probably have a better idea of what's cooking than franklin does. It IS franklin, by the way.

 

[SaltyDawg]

I didn't miss it, but to be honest, I figured the 42 states that have lotteries probably have a better idea of what's cooking than franklin does. It IS franklin, by the way.

*43 states have either the powerball or mega millions lottery. The only ones that don't have either are Mississippi, Alabama, Alaska, Hawaii, Nevada, Utah, and Wyoming.

California has the mega millions, but not the powerball. Florida has the powerball but not the mega millions. All of the rest of the states have both. And I think all of them have their own state lotteries too.

 

[TroutBum]

Wow, thanks for taking the time to point that out, Salty.


My point still stands.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Wow, thanks for taking the time to point that out, Salty.


My point still stands.

Yeah I wasn't disagreeing with you or anything. Just happened to have both websites up on the where to play tabs when I read your post.

 

[SaltyDawg]

I suspect the amount of money leaving Utah for lotteries in other states is truly miniscule. Do you have any data on that?

I found the article I read a few years ago:
https://www.deseretnews.com/article/705283155/Idaho-Lottery-is-hitting-the-jackpot-with-Utahns.html

" Geoff Green says a simple reason explains why his tiny Kwik Stop gas station has ruled as Idaho's No. 1 seller of lottery tickets for more than a decade: location. It is in Malad, near the border with Utah — where no gambling is legal.

"I would estimate that 95 percent of the tickets we sell are to Utahns," said Green, manager of the Kwik Stop.

Idaho's No. 2 seller is across the street at the Top Stop Chevron. In fact, five of Idaho's top eight lottery retailers are on the Utah border, according to 2008 Idaho Lottery Commission sales data obtained by the Deseret News.

Deseret News analysis estimates that Utahns likely purchased at least $9 million of Idaho lottery tickets last year, about 7 percent of all sales.

With Utah's help, tiny Malad (population 2,065) even sells more lottery tickets than any of Idaho's cities except large Boise and Idaho Falls."

That's from a few years ago, and it doesn't factor in the people buying tickets in Colorado and Arizona. But I think it's pretty significant even if it's only considering Idaho.

 

[colton]

Actually, that seems like a pretty miniscule amount of money leaving the state to me, comparatively speaking.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Actually, that seems like a pretty miniscule amount of money leaving the state to me, comparatively speaking.

It says that 7% of all Idaho lottery sales are to Utah residents. And that was 3 years ago, with the number growing every year. And again, it is not factoring in the Arizona and Colorado lottery sales to Utah residents.

It didn't seem minuscule to me. If that money was going to Utah lottery sales instead, maybe we could afford to put air conditioners in the schools.