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Why Lindsey should do NOTHING until July 1st

Jack Strop said:
Yes, Utah has cap space. But everyone clamoring for Utah to do something...anything to use it up fails to see the implications for 2017/18.

1. Are there any trades that move the needle for Hayward? Only two, IMO: getting Love or Paul George. And neither are going to happen. Utah likely would have to be the third team in a Cleveland/Indiana/Utah triangle. There's nothing, short of Gobert, that would convince either team to deal with Utah right now. Indiana can get better assets elsewhere. .
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What your suggesting puts the Jazz over the Luxury tax by approx 16m.

If you have a chance to be a superteam you do it, not many chances come along. Jazz have the assets and space to get this done.

Boston rumored trade offer:

Sacto 19' 1sr Rd pick
Mem or Lac 1st Rd pick both are lottery protected.
Jae Crowder + filler

Sacto 1st might be good but the rest is not much.

Jazz could offer Favors, Burks, Mitchell(Pacers loved him and wanted to draft him), OKC 18' 1st Rd pick, Jazz 18' 1st Rd pick.

The Jazz have assets they can use to pull off this trade even if they have to include Hood. Paul George is now saying he is open to re-signing with a contender. The Jazz can still sign Hayward,Hill, Ingles and sign a couple scrubs and end up around the 123m range. But in order to do this they would need to use the avail cap space by July 1st

Utah is not a hot spot for free agents but the Jazz can offset that by becoming a Super team.

Hill
George
Ingles
Hayward
Gobert
Hood
Exum
Johnson
Bolomboy
Bradley
Goss
Neto

But your right, Jazz won't do it because they are too conservative and only championship teams make such moves.
 
Shocker00 said:
What your suggesting puts the Jazz over the Luxury tax by approx 16m.

If you have a chance to be a superteam you do it, not many chances come along. Jazz have the assets and space to get this done.

Boston rumored trade offer:

Sacto 19' 1sr Rd pick
Mem or Lac 1st Rd pick both are lottery protected.
Jae Crowder + filler

Sacto 1st might be good but the rest is not much.

Jazz could offer Favors, Burks, Mitchell(Pacers loved him and wanted to draft him), OKC 18' 1st Rd pick, Jazz 18' 1st Rd pick.

The Jazz have assets they can use to pull off this trade even if they have to include Hood. Paul George is now saying he is open to re-signing with a contender. The Jazz can still sign Hayward,Hill, Ingles and sign a couple scrubs and end up around the 123m range. But in order to do this they would need to use the avail cap space by July 1st

Utah is not a hot spot for free agents but the Jazz can offset that by becoming a Super team.

Hill
George
Ingles
Hayward
Gobert
Hood
Exum
Johnson
Bolomboy
Bradley
Goss
Neto

But your right, Jazz won't do it because they are too conservative and only championship teams make such moves.
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Jazz won't do it because that's a short-sighted, extremely risky move.
 
Shocker00 said:
But your right, Jazz won't do it because they are too conservative and only championship teams make such moves.
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It's funny to me how every time someone suggests something extremely risky, they do so as if there is no risk, and assume it will automatically work out. This is the kind of thinking that leads to the Brooklyn Nets.

DL has done a great job so far in putting this team together. Losing Hayward would be a setback, but not a death sentence. That is, unless they start throwing all their assets away to gamble on a player that most likely leaves them high and dry in a year.


Here's what DL had to say about the pressure to make something happen:

"Look, all executives, head coaches, ownership — they know the right thing to do, and then many times what happens is you capitulate to pressure and you overreach," he said. "We want to stick to our fundamentals of team-building, mindset, culture, skills, fits, value adds, contract production. We feel like if we continually do that, we're going to be in good stead."

- Dennis Lindsey
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If there is a move out there for Love I would still make it. If there is a way to move a couple guys and pick up a stretch 4 I would strongly consider it. I think you have to wait on the point guard things until you see what happens with Hill/Hayward.
 
MDAV28 said:
Jazz won't do it because that's a short-sighted, extremely risky move.
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Yeah the Jazz is too conservative. You trade Favors and Burks but you gain George and cap space, so really all your risking is the loss of Mitchell, OKC 18' 1st Rd pick, Jazz 18' 1st Rd pick. The Jazz can always buy a pick early 2nd round in 18' if needed beings how their pick they give up would probably be 28-30 range anyways. So our big losses come down too Donovan Mitchell and the OKC 18' pick.

Let's look at possible rewards because everyone always mention risks and losses.

Possible rewards from the trade:
Attract more free agents on better contracts
Become a nba contender and probably 2nd best team in the league.
More Excitement, publicity, sales.
Possibility of re-signing George preventing Lakers from getting him next year.

Risk involved:
Losing Mitchell
Losing OKC 18' pick
George doesn't re-sign(if this happens it gives us more cap space to sign Exum and Hood which is not the worst thing to happen)

There is also risk involved if you don't improve your team.

other teams catch you or distance themselves from you: Example Minnesota, Houston. Next year Lakers will be making a big move to get better. I think however the Jazz is happy baking that cake!
 
Mitchell's floor is the next Michael Jordan. I ain't tradin him.

The only question is if Hayward is going to be Pippen.
 
LoPo said:
Does anybody else have a problem with our off-season just being resigning Ingles, Hayward and Hill? Do we really think thats the answer?

So the 2017/18 Jazz will be the 2016/17 Jazz but replacing Mack and Diaw with Mitchell and Bradley.

Then think about the 2018/19 Jazz without 2 of Joe J, Favors, Exum and Hood.

I'm extremely unsatisfied with this off-season if that is the plan. That is why the cap space is so important in my opinion. We have to be bold or plan for the world when GS might have to break up (2019). Treading water will do nothing for us.

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Takes two to dance. Acting like they are doing nothing is ridiculous. I am sure there are a lot of deals out there that would make us worse or hand cuff us going forward. Obviously everyone on this board wants us to get better but the vast majority of trades don't pan out. DL has shown a willingness to make moves and take some risks and I respect that. In the entire NBA there will probably be 3 or maybe 4 trades of significance this year, like every year. The problem is that on boards like this 90% of the trades that are proposed have no chance, are one sided, and are not based in any form of reality. That gets people worked up. I am good with DL and his staff working this and I am sure they are not sitting around.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
LoPo could definitely built a team that could beat the Warriors. And his first step is too dump our best player. Hire the man.


It's a long ****ing season dude. And I see quite a difference from tanking years, to winning fifty games and a playoff series. So if in one hand you give me consistent playoffs, and super fun team that is easy to like, and always right on the cusp ready to strike if something goes awry in the league. And the other hand you give me the full Hinkie. I know what I'm choosing.
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Hill is our best player? You should be GM

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Injuries are part of the game. Injuries to the same player over and over shouldn't be an excuse, it should be an expectation.

I said pursue Porzingis after he skipped his interview. I said it probably won't happen but worth a shot. I got bashed for even thinking it. A month later, NY entertained ideas for KP. They even fired their Pres because of the dysfunction. It was worth to every team to try. You never knew with Phil.

I'm going to propose ideas because you never know. You never know if Denver is gonna call you out the blue to give you a player.

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LoPo said:
Injuries are part of the game. Injuries to the same player over and over shouldn't be an excuse, it should be an expectation.
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Like with steph curry right?
 
LoPo said:
If he keeps getting hurt, yes. If Favors had a season without injury issues, it could be used as an excuse if it was rare.

GS didn't blame title contention on Curry.

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Curry did keep getting hurt. I'm sure their fans were using his injuries as an excuse of why their team (and steph) was not doing as good as they thought it should.
Then he stopped getting hurt and he and the team played better when he was healthy. That's what happens sometimes with injuries. Your team (and players) under performs due to the injuries, then the injuries decrease or go away and the team (and players) does better. This seems obvious.
It could happen with the jazz players just like it happened with steph.
 
fishonjazz said:
Curry did keep getting hurt. I'm sure their fans were using his injuries as an excuse of why their team (and steph) was not doing as good as they thought it should.
Then he stopped getting hurt and he and the team played better when he was healthy. That's what happens sometimes with injuries. Your team (and players) under performs due to the injuries, then the injuries decrease or go away and the team (and players) does better. This seems obvious.
It could happen with the jazz players just like it happened with steph.
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They almost traded him and then he signed a contract making a fraction of his worth. Stupid warriors should dumped that loser. Also, the reason they had Bogut for their first ring, was because he was constantly hurt in Milwaukee and they finally dumped him for Ellis. Sweet move by the bucks dumping that hurt guy.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
So, we can receive back up to $16 million in contracts without giving up anything to do it and it won't touch our cap for 2017/2018, right?
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We can receive that much in salary without sending salary out, yes. Doesn't mean we will get stuff without giving up anything. We could trade a future pick for a player. Also, we won't have cap space this year unless we lose Hayward, but if we did have cap space, yes, the players salary would count towards our cap for as long as his contract lasts.
 
fishonjazz said:
Curry did keep getting hurt. I'm sure their fans were using his injuries as an excuse of why their team (and steph) was not doing as good as they thought it should.
Then he stopped getting hurt and he and the team played better when he was healthy. That's what happens sometimes with injuries. Your team (and players) under performs due to the injuries, then the injuries decrease or go away and the team (and players) does better. This seems obvious.
It could happen with the jazz players just like it happened with steph.
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GS fans werent saying "we are going to be so good next year and we didnt do xyz because of Curry's injuries." He was injury prone but they didnt have expectations at that time.

We have fans who blame injuries year after year after year for the reason why we arent in the playoffs or to the next round, etc.

Enough already.

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Cappy_Smurf said:
They almost traded him and then he signed a contract making a fraction of his worth. Stupid warriors should dumped that loser. Also, the reason they had Bogut for their first ring, was because he was constantly hurt in Milwaukee and they finally dumped him for Ellis. Sweet move by the bucks dumping that hurt guy.
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That wasnt the point and you know it. Blaming injuries is chicken ****. When Curry played, he was fantastic. Favors is only fantastic to Jazz fans. If he heals full time, then I'm all for Favors. Don't see it happening.

Rationalizing our plan based on having perfect health with Favors, Hill, etc is dumber than the dumbest trade I ever suggested.

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LoPo said:
We have injuries year after year after year which are the reason why we arent in the playoffs or to the next round, etc.
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True.
I agree
 
If we retain Hill, Hayward and Ingles and everyone on the team plays at least 70 games and is healthier (Hill, Favors, Hood) and we see big improvement from Exum as well as small to decent improvement from a couple other guys, could we win 65 games? What's our max? I'd say 62 games.
 
Wes Mantooth said:
If we retain Hill, Hayward and Ingles and everyone on the team plays at least 70 games and is healthier (Hill, Favors, Hood) and we see big improvement from Exum as well as small to decent improvement from a couple other guys, could we win 65 games? What's our max? I'd say 62 games.
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And we would win the award for most improved noncontender.

DL gets two free nights at a quality inn and 4 free meals to Denny's.

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