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Wiggins, KAT, Jabari Parker, Bledsoe on the trade block?

Gas said:
I think there is a small chance that Wiggins could fufill his potential, but Im not counting on it.

My problem with his game, and the problem I still have with his game is that his handles are aren't great. What separates 3D average wings and guards from superstars, imo, is the ability to put the ball on the floor and control that thing likes its on a string. You've got to be able to move your defender whenever you want. Split defenders. Break down defenses. Put pressure on defenses. Force switches, etc..All that stuff that having a great handle does. It really is the biggest difference between the stars and non stars. In Wiggins I see a guy with very rudimentary handles. Maybe he can get better at it, but I doubt it. You can jump high and shoot great all you want, but you get stuck at a certain level if you dont improve the handles. People think its his lack of aggression. Its not really. Its that he doesnt have the skill to look agressive. Having great handles makes you look agressive.

He also doesnt collect a lot of rebounds, blocks, steals, or assists. Lacking assists can also be another sign of not having great handles.

So what would we be getting? A glorified shooter and dunker? Just sign a Gerald Green type instead right?

On a similar topic, its why I have always loved Jabari. Dude can put the ball on the floor a lot better than Wiggins. I saw that a long time ago. I have very old threads pointing this out. But nobody wanted to hear it.

Jabari's knee scares the hell out of me, but Id way rather take a chance on him. There is way more potential there.
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Fair enough. But I'm not sure Jabari is even capable of even average defense, and he'd be playing a position where being a bad defender can lose you a playoff series (a la Melo).
 
NUMBERICA said:
Fair enough. But I'm not sure Jabari is even capable of even average defense, and he'd be playing a position where being a bad defender can lose you a playoff series (a la Melo).
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That is the biggest concern with Jabari but he is reasonably athletic and I think he can play defense. I dont think he has the same selfish personality Melo has but I dont really know. He did play decent defense at times in the playoffs this year. He was putting in good effort against Boston in game 4, but that is the only game of the series I watched.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Fair enough. But I'm not sure Jabari is even capable of even average defense, and he'd be playing a position where being a bad defender can lose you a playoff series (a la Melo).
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I dont know about that. Thats what we have Gobert for right? He makes everyone look better on defense.
 
Ron Mexico said:
That is the biggest concern with Jabari but he is reasonably athletic and I think he can play defense. I dont think he has the same selfish personality Melo has but I dont really know. He did play decent defense at times in the playoffs this year. He was putting in good effort against Boston in game 4, but that is the only game of the series I watched.
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I don't think Melo sucks at defense because of selfishness, though. I think he's limited physically and just doesn't really get it, so to speak. I see the exact same thing in Parker.
 
Gas said:
I dont know about that. Thats what we have Gobert for right? He makes everyone look better on defense.
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Adams is good at cleaning up messes, too (he's obviously not Gobert-level at protecting the rim).

I think it's easier to clean up a perimeter player's messes than it is a big's. But what do I know, really.
 
NUMBERICA said:
All that being said, if the Jazz ended up with Wiggins or Parker, I'd feel good about it because I trust the front office, coaching staff, and culture here.
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That is about the biggest reason why I could get on board with Wiggins. Maybe the Jazz and coaching staff can do some things with him and help him reach his potential.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I don't think Melo sucks at defense because of selfishness, though. I think he's limited physically and just doesn't really get it, so to speak. I see the exact same thing in Parker.
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Hmm, that is interesting. I see it as an effort and care thing. Melo, especially in his younger days had decent athleticism and good footwork on offense. To me there is no reason that cant work on defense unless you simply dont care or put in effort.

Especially team defense and rotations are more about simply understanding them and doing them. Middleton is one of the least athletic players in the NBA but he plays good team defense. Korver is in a same boat.

But I guess for me is being an okay defender that doesnt hurt the team. I dont think Jabari will ever be a good defender or shut down defender. But he can protect the rim somewhat, he can help from the weakside, he can stay in front of PFs. He isnt going to be good at switching onto small guys though, but most bigs are not good at that including Gobert.
 
I hope there is lots of chaos this off-season. Because that gives DL opportunities to strike. The chance to land someone to push this team even further.
 
NUMBERICA said:
The Jazz have to pull **** if they want to improve their chances of having a consistent offensive contributor next to Mitchell. That's just how it is.

That being said, Wiggins has been very inefficient. There is a lot to have pause about.
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His offense is pretty bad, though. He was -1.1 in OBMP this year. His Offensive Rating was 101. That's pretty sad when you consider he wasn't on a horrible, tanking team. His team won 47 games. He just didn't really contribute all that much to it. He's also a very bad defender. Net negative on offense and defense with that kind of contract? Bjelica had more impact on both ends of the floor.

And this isn't just one season. Well, the offensive part is. Before this season, he was simply average on offense, efficiency wise. Defense has been horrible throughout. He's no star. He's just a guy with a lot of physical skills and reasonably high usage so he's putting up numbers that look decent on surface. He's a net negative in almost every way under the surface.

And here's a really shocking stat for the end. Wiggins shot free throws at a lower percentage than Rudy this year, and went to the line less.
 
San Antonio has done two head-scratching, non-San Antonio-type things in recent years that have made me wonder if Popovich is getting demented:

1. Sign LMA.
2. Sign Rudy Gay.
 
JimLes said:
His offense is pretty bad, though. He was -1.1 in OBMP this year. His Offensive Rating was 101. That's pretty sad when you consider he wasn't on a horrible, tanking team. His team won 47 games. He just didn't really contribute all that much to it. He's also a very bad defender. Net negative on offense and defense with that kind of contract? Bjelica had more impact on both ends of the floor.

And this isn't just one season. Well, the offensive part is. Before this season, he was simply average on offense, efficiency wise. Defense has been horrible throughout. He's no star. He's just a guy with a lot of physical skills and reasonably high usage so he's putting up numbers that look decent on surface. He's a net negative in almost every way under the surface.

And here's a really shocking stat for the end. Wiggins shot free throws at a lower percentage than Rudy this year, and went to the line less.
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No one wants Wiggins for what he did. People want him for his potential and think that a better coach could help and develop him better. He is still so young.

Personally I think Thibs is a bad coach. I think Snyder could get Wiggins to buy in and play defense and focus on the things he is good at on offense.

Wiggins is not a good iso player but they ran a lot of Iso on that team. They also had him run the pick and roll a ton and he isnt good at that yet either, although better than in ISO.

Wiggins also isnt a great shooter but I think he could become one which would do wonders for his game. Just like it did for Rubio this year. His catch and shoot 3s were 35%. If he could get that up a bit it would make a difference. Wiggins took 6 pull up FGA per game and was awful at them. Those are something that Snyder would get him to stop doing and really help his FG%/efficiency.

He was pretty good in post ups and actually shot the same percentage as KAT in post ups. He was pretty good on cuts, which he would get a lot of in Snyders system and shot 75% on coming off cuts. He was decent when he got touches at the elbow, paint or post.

But I would be trusting the coaching staff to develop him right and get him going. That is a risk though. He might not like being here, our system, and hard work and follow the path of Lyles and Hood.
 
Ron Mexico said:
No one wants Wiggins for what he did. People want him for his potential and think that a better coach could help and develop him better. He is still so young.

Personally I think Thibs is a bad coach. I think Snyder could get Wiggins to buy in and play defense and focus on the things he is good at on offense.

Wiggins is not a good iso player but they ran a lot of Iso on that team. They also had him run the pick and roll a ton and he isnt good at that yet either, although better than in ISO.

Wiggins also isnt a great shooter but I think he could become one which would do wonders for his game. Just like it did for Rubio this year. His catch and shoot 3s were 35%. If he could get that up a bit it would make a difference. Wiggins took 6 pull up FGA per game and was awful at them. Those are something that Snyder would get him to stop doing and really help his FG%/efficiency.

He was pretty good in post ups and actually shot the same percentage as KAT in post ups. He was pretty good on cuts, which he would get a lot of in Snyders system and shot 75% on coming off cuts. He was decent when he got touches at the elbow, paint or post.

But I would be trusting the coaching staff to develop him right and get him going. That is a risk though. He might not like being here, our system, and hard work and follow the path of Lyles and Hood.
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Very good post.
 
T-wolves fans are not that into Wiggins. Everytime I read their boards they are complaining about him. Rubio was a lot more loved there.
People seem to just get frustrated with his laid back, non alpha dog, and inconsistent play.
 
Denver should never take another call from the jazz front office and so it goes for the jazz. We should never take a call from MN. I am talking about that Al Jeff deal that was not good from day one. Wiggins is the same player only skinnier. He’s all about his own numbers and no interest in team wins. Bad idea if they asked me.
 
Stoked said:
I hope there is lots of chaos this off-season. Because that gives DL opportunities to strike. The chance to land someone to push this team even further.
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Getting into the fringes in some of these deal could deliver great value... more trade movement will create some opportunities to scoop stuff up on the cheap.
 
just because said:
Denver should never take another call from the jazz front office and so it goes for the jazz. We should never take a call from MN. I am talking about that Al Jeff deal that was not good from day one. Wiggins is the same player only skinnier. He’s all about his own numbers and no interest in team wins. Bad idea if they asked me.
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What about the Rubio deal? That seems to be turning out well.

I dont think Minny got that much out of the Jefferson deal. Kosta didnt do anything there. The picks didnt turn into anything either. But I guess thats because Minny really messed those up in trades. I know they traded the memphis one to Houston for Brad Miller, Norris cole and a 2nd pick. The other pick got traded for Buddinger that was meh for them.
 
Ron Mexico said:
No one wants Wiggins for what he did. People want him for his potential and think that a better coach could help and develop him better. He is still so young.

Personally I think Thibs is a bad coach. I think Snyder could get Wiggins to buy in and play defense and focus on the things he is good at on offense.

Wiggins is not a good iso player but they ran a lot of Iso on that team. They also had him run the pick and roll a ton and he isnt good at that yet either, although better than in ISO.

Wiggins also isnt a great shooter but I think he could become one which would do wonders for his game. Just like it did for Rubio this year. His catch and shoot 3s were 35%. If he could get that up a bit it would make a difference. Wiggins took 6 pull up FGA per game and was awful at them. Those are something that Snyder would get him to stop doing and really help his FG%/efficiency.

He was pretty good in post ups and actually shot the same percentage as KAT in post ups. He was pretty good on cuts, which he would get a lot of in Snyders system and shot 75% on coming off cuts. He was decent when he got touches at the elbow, paint or post.

But I would be trusting the coaching staff to develop him right and get him going. That is a risk though. He might not like being here, our system, and hard work and follow the path of Lyles and Hood.
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I’m not paying Wiggins 30M a year based on potential, potential that really isn’t even there imo. That’s dumb as **** and a guaranteed way to completely hamstring our organization for a few years, thus wasting the rest of Ingles’ prime and three key years this team has in what is a very small window in our best chance to win a title since the John and Karl days. It’ll be AK all over again.
 
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