gomretat
Well-Known Member
That combination of assets added at least as much value as we would have retained had DWill stayed in town. For my vote, it was more that we would have gotten out of DWill.
Will Rudy get the D-Will Treatment?
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LoPo
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I agree. The biggest mistake we ever made was not trading the picks for an established player. The trade ended up looking weak because we drafted poorly. Also, I thought we should have flipped Harris instead of keeping him. He had value yet flopped here. We should have tanked more then traded the picks either to move up or get a proven player.
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Sean
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Especially since we haven't really gotten anything out of this last rebuild. A couple first round series wins, coupled with getting absolutely destroyed in the second round (and the first round last year), isn't really something that I can look back fondly on to get me through the rebuild.
Simultaneously probably true. It just all really kinda sucked.
I like having a good team. Maybe I’m a simpleton.
This election, I vote to have the best team we can right now. Part of that is that I don't trust the Jazz (or most organizations) to somehow get better in the long or short term by trading away a monumentally impactful player.
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LoPo
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Most of what? I still fail to see how Donovan is the issue here.
Rudy did something in the lockerroom, not Donovan. Rudy complained publicly about his touches. Rudy hasn't played as well defensively this year when that is his main role.
I don't think anyone is to blame, but if there is, I know it's not Donovan. He has far exceeded his contract, draft spot and any expectations through 2.5 years.
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Jazz4ever
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I don’t know how many times we have to go through this. He’s the face of the franchise. Everyone has been waiting on his comment here and nationally. Everyone else from the front office to most his teammates have had to answer questions about it as he has avoided SLC and local media for months. When you are a true leader and face of the franchise you show up and say the right things for your organization and teammates. Period. Donovan is proving in many ways that his true leadership is really lacking. And guess what?.....he’s going to get asked about it anyway the second he’s taking questions from media so maybe he should have just addressed it a month ago.
Rudy is in the pantheon of all-time efficient scorers in part because you just have to get him the ball in a certain spot and you get points. He relies on guards to get him the ball. What he does wins games even if it's not flashy.
Meanwhile, Donovan will never have to worry about touches and looks as concerned with making highlights as he is making good basketball decisions.
The question of draft position and contract are completely pointless in the context of your post (responding to a post about Donovan probably being a baby).
Just so we're clear on Rudy's impact, he is quite similar to Dwight Howard's impact in his peak years (BPM ~4, VORP ~4, similar win shares [Rudy bests him per 48 there], similar PER [identical career PER], similar DRtg [identical for their careers] but Rudy has a WAY higher ORtg, Rudy beats him on TS% by a substantial margin). He does it with a fraction of the athleticism, power, or oomph that Howard brought then, but Rudy is that much more diligent of a player.
We should not be quick to even consider trading him.
We should not be quick to even consider trading him.
LoPo
Well-Known Member
Rudy's impact when it matters is neglible. Some made valid arguments that Favors was as effective as Gobert the last two playoffs (2018 and 2019). If Gobert is once again relegated to just a decent starter instead of massive game changer, some of you can stop whining about Donovan.
This whole Rudy debate comes down to Rudy - either step up this postseason or don't expect anything near the supermax. Its that simple for me. Earn the contract when it matters most.
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We did this during the DWill era. We get 2 All Stars on the team at the same time, plus other decent players, and we repeatedly win 50+ games to get the 4th or 5th seed in the West. It is very difficult to take that next step to become a 60-win team. To do it, we literally need another All Star-caliber player. The Jazz took a swing at it this year with Mike Conley, but it hasn't panned out.
Obviously it's just as difficult for other teams as well -- Blazers, Nuggets, Grizzlies, Celtics, Raptors, etc. -- they all get to 50 - 55 wins and win a round or two in the POs, but fall short of the Finals. Raptors broke through when they finally fleeced the Spurs for Kawhi and two of the Warriors' main players went down with injuries.
The Jazz are one player away from winning 55 - 60 games and really competing for the Finals. Rudy, Donovan, Bojan and Jordan Clarkson are nice pieces. Conley could still step up too.
Agreed, going from bad to good, isn’t near as hard as going from good to great.
fishonjazz
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Ya I thought it was a good trade. Just didn't work out as it could have
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Handlogten's Heros
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I think I'm having second... or third/fourth thoughts here. I still think there is a chance the contract details don't work out and we move Rudy out of fear of leaving but if we pivot I think it is more likely to be something centered around Mike.
We are kind of locked in to the current team plus whoever we draft this year. I don't think we will be able to sign JC and use MLE without going into the tax. Maybe if we move Ed, but I'm just not sure what the actual cap will be... it was always going to be close and with a shrinking cap I don't see us doing anything outside of maybe a minimum dude. The following year we will have some ability to maneuver. If we re-sign Rudy and he's healthy then he'd likely have a ton of value if we wanted to pivot away from one of our cornerstones.
My only real hope for the end of this season games/playoffs is that DM and Rudy show some on court chemistry/connection and that we play well enough that it makes sense to continue on with this group. Would be nice to see a rejuvenated Mike Conley. I think we are likely outmatched without Bojan.
We are kind of locked in to the current team plus whoever we draft this year. I don't think we will be able to sign JC and use MLE without going into the tax. Maybe if we move Ed, but I'm just not sure what the actual cap will be... it was always going to be close and with a shrinking cap I don't see us doing anything outside of maybe a minimum dude. The following year we will have some ability to maneuver. If we re-sign Rudy and he's healthy then he'd likely have a ton of value if we wanted to pivot away from one of our cornerstones.
My only real hope for the end of this season games/playoffs is that DM and Rudy show some on court chemistry/connection and that we play well enough that it makes sense to continue on with this group. Would be nice to see a rejuvenated Mike Conley. I think we are likely outmatched without Bojan.