Will You Accept the Findings of the Muller Probe?

[The Thriller]

You’d think that @Catchall would get the hint. His *** is being dropkicked all over this website by multiple posters. You’d think he’d recognize that he was wrong and his sources completely unreliable. But whatever.

Such is the insecure mind that lacks critical thinking skills. “Everyone else must be wrong, they’re the outliers, I’m still right regardless of what the facts say!”

Trump truly, is the president for these paranoid deplorables.

 

[silesian]

I dunno, but the Dems were metacrying about it because they wanted to protect poor Hillary. Hypocrisy is what it is. They project their feelings about Hillary on people who support Trump.

Attaboy. Using your new vocabulary word I just taught you!!

 

[silesian]

Donations to the Clinton Foundation are not "direct donations".

Yeah but the whole thing is kinda slimy even if legal.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

So it appears that @Catchall believes the intelligence community and law enforcement are lying or the DNC has a leaker with a time machine.

Again, the nonsense spewed on 4chan and Breitbart is pretty scary stuff.

I don't read Breitbart or 4Chan. I surely don't trust CNN either though. I've worked with them enough in the past to know how controlled they are.

This is an excerpt from The Nation, August 2017, which is not considered a conservative publication by any means ----
https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/

Forensic investigators, intelligence analysts, system designers, program architects, and computer scientists of long experience and strongly credentialed are now producing evidence disproving the official version of key events last year. Their work is intricate and continues at a kinetic pace as we speak. But its certain results so far are two, simply stated, and freighted with implications:

• There was no hack of the Democratic National Committee’s system on July 5 last year—not by the Russians, not by anyone else. Hard science now demonstrates it was a leak—a download executed locally with a memory key or a similarly portable data-storage device. In short, it was an inside job by someone with access to the DNC’s system. This casts serious doubt on the initial “hack,” as alleged, that led to the very consequential publication of a large store of documents on WikiLeaks last summer.

• Forensic investigations of documents made public two weeks prior to the July 5 leak by the person or entity known as Guccifer 2.0 show that they were fraudulent: Before Guccifer posted them they were adulterated by cutting and pasting them into a blank template that had Russian as its default language. Guccifer took responsibility on June 15 for an intrusion the DNC reported on June 14 and professed to be a WikiLeaks source—claims essential to the official narrative implicating Russia in what was soon cast as an extensive hacking operation. To put the point simply, forensic science now devastates this narrative.

 

[colton]

I was at a laser test with 4 super magnification telescopes and all that jazz. You can see the reflector kind of. But I trust the instrumentation told us the truth. It's pretty cool actually.

You're just part of the conspiracy! But that's OK, you're in good company--Mythbusters Adam and Jamie are as well:

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

That as well, but only in a criminal procedure. Truth is Impeachment doesn't work like that. In a normal, sane world, the House would decide on Impeachment and the Senate would put the matter to trial, in their own way. Recall Clinton's impeachment in 96 (I think that was the year) where the House passed the motions to get it rolling but the Senate found him not guilty. As such, I don't think anything would really come of it.

The House holds hearings and then the impeachment trial takes place in the Senate. You're correct that an impeachment is different from a criminal procedure. The legal standards that must be met may or may not be as high. It goes to a vote. The Senate has already said that they won't impeach Trump on the basis of the Mueller investigation/report. The Dems are looking elsewhere to build a case, namely trying to sift through Trump's financial records and White House communications. They don't know exactly what they're looking for yet.

Right now, the Dems want to make a case in the court of public opinion so as to have an impact in the 2020 election cycle.

 

[TheStormofWar]

I don't read Breitbart or 4Chan. I surely don't trust CNN either though. I've worked with them enough in the past to know how controlled they are.

This is an excerpt from The Nation, August 2017, which is not considered a conservative publication by any means ----
https://www.thenation.com/article/a-new-report-raises-big-questions-about-last-years-dnc-hack/

Forensic investigators, intelligence analysts, system designers, program architects, and computer scientists of long experience and strongly credentialed are now producing evidence disproving the official version of key events last year. Their work is intricate and continues at a kinetic pace as we speak. But its certain results so far are two, simply stated, and freighted with implications:

• There was no hack of the Democratic National Committee’s system on July 5 last year—not by the Russians, not by anyone else. Hard science now demonstrates it was a leak—a download executed locally with a memory key or a similarly portable data-storage device. In short, it was an inside job by someone with access to the DNC’s system. This casts serious doubt on the initial “hack,” as alleged, that led to the very consequential publication of a large store of documents on WikiLeaks last summer.

• Forensic investigations of documents made public two weeks prior to the July 5 leak by the person or entity known as Guccifer 2.0 show that they were fraudulent: Before Guccifer posted them they were adulterated by cutting and pasting them into a blank template that had Russian as its default language. Guccifer took responsibility on June 15 for an intrusion the DNC reported on June 14 and professed to be a WikiLeaks source—claims essential to the official narrative implicating Russia in what was soon cast as an extensive hacking operation. To put the point simply, forensic science now devastates this narrative.

I can cite at least 10 well respected security companies and publicly released intelligence reports from BOTH ADMINISTRATIONS that point to the DNC email hack as a likely result of Russian APTs. In addition, the source they partially cited in this doesn't seem valid to me. As such, I take this with a grain of salt. Majority analysis puts this as an APT acting on behalf of a nation-state, likely Russia. Mueller's own indictments against several parties also conclude and state that Russia wanted Trump in office because "it was in their best interest" (ref: Manafort second indictment).

 

[TheStormofWar]

The House holds hearings and then the impeachment trial takes place in the Senate. You're correct that an impeachment is different from a criminal procedure. The legal standards that must be met may or may not be as high. It goes to a vote. The Senate has already said that they won't impeach Trump on the basis of the Mueller investigation/report. The Dems are looking elsewhere to build a case, namely trying to sift through Trump's financial records and White House communications. They don't know exactly what they're looking for yet.

Right now, the Dems want to make a case in the court of public opinion so as to have an impact in the 2020 election cycle.

Exactly why I called it DOA and the system broken. The Clinton Impeachment taught me one thing: The POTUS would have to be filmed committing a murder and whizzing on the corpse to make their most frothing supporters flinch. Even then, it's a crapshoot at best. Personally, I don't really care if Billy Boy lied about receiving fallatio or not, or even if he lied about it. But it taught me that politics is a dirty pool by nature and the entire system is broken.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

To be clear, the OLC's policy was the automatic disqualifier for bringing charges against the POTUS anyway and Constitutionally well founded. That is the job of Congress in this circumstance. Whether Trump would have been indicted? Who knows honestly. To be fair with this, Trump is inferred in a lot of indictments, including Manafort and others, without direct naming. However, we'll probably never know if dude was guilty or not. Simply put, any Impeachment resolutions passed by the House will be simply be going through motions in the Senate as it would be probably DOA anyway. It's such a broken system.

Even though the DOJ can't criminally indict a sitting president, the Democrats were hoping that the Mueller investigation would provide enough evidence to pursue impeachment, which, as you pointed out, is a political process. Mueller's finding that there was "insufficient evidence" to show a criminal conspiracy between Trump's campaign and the Russians, really undermined that effort. Democrats were really disappointed by this.

Nonetheless, the Dems want to get rid of Trump. If they can't find grounds to impeach him, or censure him, they still want to create enough political theater and enough ruckus in the media to try to vote him out in the next election.

Of course, the Dems and liberal-leaning media are fully entitled to do this, but let's not pretend that this hasn't been politically motivated from the outset. And all this talk about "doing what's right to preserve the integrity of our Republic for future generations" comes off as shallow, faux outrage that insults everyone's intelligence.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

You’d think that @Catchall would get the hint. His *** is being dropkicked all over this website by multiple posters. You’d think he’d recognize that he was wrong and his sources completely unreliable. But whatever.

Such is the insecure mind that lacks critical thinking skills. “Everyone else must be wrong, they’re the outliers, I’m still right regardless of what the facts say!”

Trump truly, is the president for these paranoid deplorables.

You're really past the point of no return aren't you.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

I can cite at least 10 well respected security companies and publicly released intelligence reports from BOTH ADMINISTRATIONS that point to the DNC email hack as a likely result of Russian APTs. In addition, the source they partially cited in this doesn't seem valid to me. As such, I take this with a grain of salt. Majority analysis puts this as an APT acting on behalf of a nation-state, likely Russia. Mueller's own indictments against several parties also conclude and state that Russia wanted Trump in office because "it was in their best interest" (ref: Manafort second indictment).

Please post at least some of those security companies and their cites.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Exactly why I called it DOA and the system broken. The Clinton Impeachment taught me one thing: The POTUS would have to be filmed committing a murder and whizzing on the corpse to make their most frothing supporters flinch. Even then, it's a crapshoot at best. Personally, I don't really care if Billy Boy lied about receiving fallatio or not, or even if he lied about it. But it taught me that politics is a dirty pool by nature and the entire system is broken.

I'd agree that it's fair to say the entire system is dirty and corrupt, yes. That's how you get someone with the character of Trump as president in the first place.

 

[TheStormofWar]

Even though the DOJ can't criminally indict a sitting president, the Democrats were hoping that the Mueller investigation would provide enough evidence to pursue impeachment, which, as you pointed out, is a political process. Mueller's finding that there was "insufficient evidence" to show a criminal conspiracy between Trump's campaign and the Russians, really undermined that effort. Democrats were really disappointed by this.

Nonetheless, the Dems want to get rid of Trump. If they can't find grounds to impeach him, or censure him, they still want to create enough political theater and enough ruckus in the media to try to vote him out in the next election.

Of course, the Dems and liberal-leaning media are fully entitled to do this, but let's not pretend that this hasn't been politically motivated from the outset. And all this talk about "doing what's right to preserve the integrity of our Republic for future generations" comes off as shallow, faux outrage that insults everyone's intelligence.

LOL. The impeachment blow is probably politically motivated. But generally, criminal investigations are not. Take it for what you will, but I genuinely doubt Mueller was "politically motivated" given he's a registered Republican and has worked for multiple administrations of both sides with the upmost professionalism.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

That was my mistake, I should have said Rosenstein, who appointed the special prosecutor. At any rate, it was Rosenstein (who was working for Trump at the time) who decided the scope of the investigation, not the already-fired Comey.

Since Fusion GPS was outside the scope of Mueller's investigation, why does this matter?

Do you think of Bernie Sander's supporters as being rational and trustworthy on this matter? Do you extend that courtesy to them on policy matters as well, or only when it suits your argument?

Papdopolous was quoted on 2016-APR-26 about the Russian dirt on Clinton. Do you have an announcement from the DNC preceding that? If not, it originated with Papadopolous.

So you're saying that verifying Russians indeed hacked DNC servers (the underlying premise of the entire investigation) is beyond the scope of the Russia investigation? If the DOJ were acting impartially (let alone on Trump's behalf), that would be the very first question to investigate. Even still, that question hasn't been conclusively answered, and it wasn't brought up by either party in this week's hearings.

Fusion GPS was mentioned in the Mueller report. Their allegations were instrumental in launching the FBI's Russia probe. One of the Congressmen on the Judiciary panel was reading Mueller's report back to him. I assume you didn't realize this, and therefore, you're in the same boat as Mueller.

During the court proceedings, the DNC admitted they favored Hillary and asserted that they had the right to do so. They're not denying it. Whether Bernie's supporters are rational on other issues, isn't relevant to the question.

Just because Papadopoulos was told the Russians had dirt on Hillary (prior to April 26) doesn't mean the Russians hacked the DNC on July 5.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Please, acknowledge that I’ve thoroughly refuted your ridiculous claims that Russia didn’t hack the DNC and then we can get to your pointing the finger at Clinton. Maybe you’re just too embarrassed to admit it? But all of your asinine claims have been refuted. I’m sorry, you lost.

Which is funny, I’m sure you were totally fine with Clinton using her Foundation throughout her presidency, right?

The thing is, acknowledging corruption shouldn’t be a partisan affair. If your first reaction to Trump’s abusing the White House to his personal financial benefit is to bring up Clinton, you’ve lost the argument already. It’s asinine to continue to bring her up when confronted with Trump’s flagrant corruption.

Have fun arguing at the clouds stupid ***. I’ve got better things to do today than your partisan and honestly, pretty boring, squabbles. Clinton is so used up.

I've been shredding you all afternoon. You're about the least rational and coherent poster on the Dem side of this discussion and have been since the beginning of this thread. You're just too obtuse to realize it.

You have every right to spout your opinions ad nauseam. Just understand why much of the country feels differently, and why Dems are likely going to lose the next election.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

LOL. The impeachment blow is probably politically motivated. But generally, criminal investigations are not. Take it for what you will, but I genuinely doubt Mueller was "politically motivated" given he's a registered Republican and has worked for multiple administrations of both sides with the upmost professionalism.

Based on this week's hearings, it's pretty clear that Mueller was barely involved. He's a career patriot and lawman, not a politician, but it's clear he's being used as a figurehead. Else, he would have been far more familiar with the report that bears his name. The team that produced the Mueller report was a group of lawyers working under Mueller, most of whom are Democrats.

 

[TheStormofWar]

Based on this week's hearings, it's pretty clear that Mueller was barely involved. He's a career patriot and lawman, not a politician, but it's clear he's being used as a figurehead. Else, he would have been far more familiar with the report that bears his name. The team that produced the Mueller report was a group of lawyers working under Mueller, most of whom are Democrats.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Recall at the drop of a hat a very particular reference in a 400+ report produced over the span of a two year marathon investigation.

 

[Zombie]

The team that produced the Mueller report was a group of lawyers working under Mueller, most of whom are Democrats.

Which is relevant, because as we all know only Republicans (aside from Mueller of course for some reason) can be trusted to be impartial.

 

[jazzrule]

Which is relevant, because as we all know only Republicans can be trusted to be impartial.

That is why there should have been balance on those picked...half Republican and half Democrat. Zombie can you not realize that the investigation team was made up of democratic donors, a former Hillary lawyer and the real man in charge was at Hillary's victory party before it was canceled. You and Thriller are beyond listening with an open mind.

 

[Zombie]

That is why there should have been balance on those picked...half Republican and half Democrat. Zombie can you not realize that the investigation team was made up of democratic donors, a former Hillary lawyer and the real man in charge was at Hillary's victory party before it was canceled. You and Thriller are beyond listening with an open mind.

Don't pretend that this actually matters. A Republican was in charge of the entire operation and that hasn't stopped you guys from maligning him.