Woj: Celtics working to land both Gordon Hayward and Paul George

[Douchebag K]

it doesn't matter what I think. When you're defining a player's floor, and you have 2 years of evidence, then you can work with that to define the floor. The better question, at this point, is why you're making this point so ****ing difficult.

ok lets put it in English for the chemically affected in the room. If you think his floor will be what he's done in the first two years given his experience level and injury i think that's nuts. There's a good chance he might not be that great in the end but i just can't see him possibly staying that lame. Feel free to have your own opinion. Move on.

 

[colton]

Robyn Hayward posted this on Instagram. It's letters from a junior high class writing to Gordon Hayward asking him to stay:

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That's awesome. Give that teacher a raise!

 

[stitches]

Statistics say otherwise. He was more up and down but overall he outplayed him. Mack got more minutes, especially early because the coaching staff valued consistency.

Not exactly... Exum ended up playing more minutes than Mack for the season. Still not enough IMO, but yeah...

 

[Mission Accomplished]

We are so desperate for mediocrity

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[stitches]

Something to consider - the Jazz do their business extremely quietly. For example, nobody knew we were looking to trade up to get Mitchell until it happened. Nobody knew the Jazz are trading for Hill until it happened. I bet the Jazz are doing a ton of work behind the scenes. It's just not in their interest for it all to be public. It would be malpractice for them to be just waiting. I bet they are meeting with Hayward, meeting/calling agents, exploring trades, etc.

 

[Jazz4ever]

Something to consider - the Jazz do their business extremely quietly. For example, nobody knew we were looking to trade up to get Mitchell until it happened. Nobody knew the Jazz are trading for Hill until it happened. I bet the Jazz are doing a ton of work behind the scenes. It's just not in their interest for it all to be public. It would be malpractice for them to be just waiting. I bet they are meeting with Hayward, meeting/calling agents, exploring trades, etc.

Denver came to Utah with the offer on Mitchell, although they may have talked earlier at some point.

 

[stitches]

Yeah, but the Celtics aren't better than the Jazz. If the Celtics played in the Western Conference and had to play the elite teams in the west 3 or 4 time per year instead of 2, they would be a 48-win team and probably a 6th or 7th seed. The only real advantage the Celtics have is that they're in the Eastern Conference. Their talent level isn't really better than the Wizards or Raptors. The Raptors actually looked better than the Celtics when they played head to head.

By point differential(net rating) they were a 46 wins team. They had an extremely lucky season and won a ton of games they shouldn't have won. No need for them to even be in the West, even in the East they are not as good as their win record would indicate. They were one of the luckiest teams in the history of the league since net rating has been kept as a stat. Them needing an injury to Rondo in order to eliminate the freaking Bulls, and getting wiped out by 100 points vs the Cavs points to the same thing. They are not a real contender in any sense of the word.

 

[MDAV28]

By point differential(net rating) they were a 46 wins team. They had an extremely lucky season and won a ton of games they shouldn't have won.

Good note. I will say pointing to the #1 seed in the East may hold a little more weight than the Jazz pointing out they had a lower point differential than their expected wins.

 

[stitches]

Good note. I will say pointing to the #1 seed in the East may hold a little more weight than the Jazz pointing out they had a lower point differential than their expected wins.

The Jazz point differential was about right for their win totals. I think we were -1 or something. This is not a huge deal. Jazz had 2 points better net rating than the Celtics and this is with the most injured roster in the league.

 

[MDAV28]

The Jazz point differential was about right for their win totals. I think we were -1 or something. This is not a huge deal. Jazz had 2 points better net rating than the Celtics and this is with the most injured roster in the league.

Yeah I worded that weird. I'm just saying in the pitches each team gives, seeding may be a bigger seller than point differential.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

The Jazz point differential was about right for their win totals. I think we were -1 or something. This is not a huge deal. Jazz had 2 points better net rating than the Celtics and this is with the most injured roster in the league.

And IT has a serious hip issue, which for a shifty guy who is tiny is really going to hurt him if he isn't right when the season starts.

No doubt we are doing a ton of work... would be great to hear something positive... our media has been really negative and have hinted at it is over.

 

[Jack Strop]

Denver came to Utah with the offer on Mitchell, although they may have talked earlier at some point.

It was no secret Utah was trying to move up. I'll bet DL had conversations with perhaps every team but Boston. Seriously, he likely talked to everyone from around 8-23 to plant seeds, gauge who might be even the slightest bit interested in trading back...and to see how much it might cost. He may even have had other deals on the table, contingent upon Mitchell or some other player slipping. That Denver called back and proposed a Lyles/#24 price is immaterial. Lindsey was almost certainly the one who made the initial contact and proposed the teams working out a deal.

 

[SCS]

Denver came to Utah with the offer on Mitchell, although they may have talked earlier at some point.

It was reported either the day of the draft or the day before the draft (I can't remember which) that the Jazz were actively attempting to move into the lottery. My guess is they had preliminary type trade talks with Denver in advance of the draft. It's been reported that Denver had a three team trade that they liked but at the last minute one of the teams in the deal pulled out. Which probably led them to call the Jazz back.

 

[Jack Strop]

That's awesome. Give that teacher a raise!

Charge her with tampering!

And what would have happened to a child that liked a different team? We know a lot of closet Laker fans live in Utah. Does that kid get a bad grade; does his letter urging Hayward to go to LA end up in the trash? I think the BOE needs to get involved here. The school system should only be teaching liberal values.

 

[SCS]

If we can't deal for Paul George directly we need to do everything possible to facilitate his trade to to the Lakers, Cavs or wherever else. If Boston can't get PG then the threat is averted. There is really no other big name they can make a move for last minute. And if nobody else is joining him in Boston I really think Hayward stays. I would love to wake up tomorrow and hear PG has been traded anywhere but Boston. It would make my day. No, it would make my year.

 

[elan_prodigy]

So this is how I see it;

Utah has done everything it can to date to provide the best basketball situation FOR Gordon.

On court, They have developed an offense around him, drafted great players to play along side him (including the BEST rim protector in the league) and brought in veteran help.

Off court, we will soon have the best facilities in the NBA for him and his family to use (his children could grow up in these facilities), we have a great young coach and a stable, experienced and competent FO. He has a fan base that adores him and his family, Not too mention the incredible gift by the Miller family this year, putting the Utah Jazz into a trust with all profits being redirected back into the franchise.

There is not a better basketball situation for him to go to imo. Boston? really?? with their 5 SF's? Whos getting you a rebound? Whos protecting the rim? and who is playing the point in 2019? are they going to pay IT the MAX? doubt it. So then what? Boston is promising the world but it all sounds like a huge leap of faith by Hayward to me.

Basically, If Hayward really wants out is there any point trying to force the issue?? I'm all in for trading for PG13 or Love if it involves Favors + picks + Hood (only because I doubt we will keep him after next year anyway) but Exum (no trade value at present), Mitchell and obviously Gobert would be off the table.


The only encouraging thing Ive seen so far was at the end of DL interview last week he jokingly said "If this rolls into August, you guys will have to commit me". It gave me the feeling that he was on top off it all.


Also, what happened to the "Hayward concerned about playing with IT" chatter? seems to have vanished real quick..

 

[stitches]

BTW If we are going to be mediocre for the next 4 years, just give Milos what he wants... at least he will be fun to watch once in a while. God, it is so depressing thinking about the treadmill.

 

[LoPo]

I don't want any part of him regardless. If Hayward walks, I wanna go pure youth. Package Favors, Hood and the OKC 1st for a really good, young, long 3 with a lot of upside. Someone like Jonathan Isaac but who is actually attainable. Roll with that guy, Exum, Mitchell, Bolomboy and Gobert in the starting five en route to a top 3 pick. Get a stud next year and go from there.

I agree. If Hayward stays, I want to find a way to get Iggy. If he leaves, there is little reason to get Iggy.

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[LoPo]

Yeah, but the Celtics aren't better than the Jazz. If the Celtics played in the Western Conference and had to play the elite teams in the west 3 or 4 time per year instead of 2, they would be a 48-win team and probably a 6th or 7th seed. The only real advantage the Celtics have is that they're in the Eastern Conference. Their talent level isn't really better than the Wizards or Raptors. The Raptors actually looked better than the Celtics when they played head to head.

With Hayward, the Celtics are better than the Jazz with Hayward. They just have more weapons and quality depth.

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[fishonjazz]

By tank I mean deliberate losing. Constructing the team and making decisions to maximize the chances that we pick as high as possible. You can do it for just 1 year. I'm not saying we will be competing for a title in year 2. I'm saying we tank 1 year, we take our superstar at no. 1(Porter jr for example, hopefully) and we start building up around him and Gobert. By year 3 IMO we are going to be contending for playoffs with core around Exum/Mitchell-Hood(maybe, if we don't trade him)-Porter/Doncic-Gobert + additions in FA or through other trades. This way in year 3 you hopefully have at least 3 building cornerstones/stars(Porter, Gobert + one of the others(depends on who pans out)). The alternative is to stack the team with vets going into their 30s who will be finished by the time Gobert's contract is coming for extension. In one case you will have a young core around hopefully 3 budding stars with future in the league, in the other you will have a Gobert with limited vets taking the developmental time of Exum/Mitchell/ etc. on the treadmill.

We ain't getting the #1 pick with our roster minus hayward doe.