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Worst Refs if you are a Jazz Fan/Player

GoJazz

GoJazz

Well-Known Member
1. Steve Javie
2. Dick Bavetta
3. Violet Palmer
4. Bob Delaney
5. Joey Crawford

Please list who you would least like to see calling a game in which the Jazz need to win.
 
gregbroncs said:
Javie by far. Violet Palmer is the worst ref in the league but equally bad all the way around.
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That's it, I don't consider Palmer anti-jazz, she's more anti-entire NBA. how she still keeps her job is beyond me.

Top 3 anti-jazz refs would be Javie, Delaney, Crawford. The cream of the crap. Yes Dick screwed us many years ago, but i've put it past me.
 
-Bob Delaney's the worst. Sloan was suspended for a couple games in the mid-90's for going after Bob and Delaney's carried a grudge ever since. Did his best to let the Rockets win game 3 in the '08 Playoffs to extend that series (he even kicked Doc Anderson out of that game) and his work in Game 5 against the Lakers w/the series tied 2-2 blows his performance during game 6 of the Kings/Lakers WCF out of the water.

-Steve Javie is a close 2nd. Took over Game 4 of the 2007 WCF against the Spurs, where San Antonio shot something like 25 FT's in the 4th qtr to the Jazz's 2. He personally called 4 of the 5 Jazz technicals in that game. The crowd got on him at the beginning of the 2nd quarter for 3-straight Jazz fouls (on the same freakin possession!) and he made it his mission to get them back - and he did. Also ref'd game 5 of the '09 playoffs in L.A. where Ronnie Price got fouled 2 times in a row on drives to the basket and he called nothing from his baseline position - except a technical on Sloan to throw him out.

-Courtney Kirkland still holds a grudge from Sloan shoving him in Sacramento in 2003.

-Dick Bavetta's obviously remembered for negating Howard Eisley's 3-pointer in Game 6 of the '98 Finals, but he's a good ref although he clearly favors the superstars - especially in the playoffs.

-Joey Crawford's an emotional guy who will t' someone up for no reason or eject you just for looking at him the wrong way - and generally favors the road team but atleast he's pretty consistent (don't get me wrong, I hate Crawford with every fiber of my being, but it's not like he's blatantly screwed the Jazz more than he has any other team).

-Kenny Mauer - no nicer way to put it than saying he's a douche. Show him disrespect early in a game and he'll get you back later on. Not a bad ref, but let's his emotions take over his objectiveness.
 
fallenchicken said:
You guys should post some of their terrible ref stories.
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My favorite Sloan/ref story was Game 5 of the '99 playoffs against Portland (also the game Sloan charged out onto the court to go after Rasheed Wallace for throwing an elbow at Thurl Bailey). Throughout the 2nd-half the Blazers were playing an illegal defense on our side pick-and-roll and the refs weren't calling it. Finally after the they finally called it Sloan was hot the ref next to him didn't make the call so Jim Clark (short-white haired ref) walked up to Sloan and yelled "Hey Jerry, get off my ***!"
Sloan spun around and responded "Oh you're going to get up in my *bleepin* face?" Then he smiled and said "Hey you're really tough." The ref turned and walked away and Sloan laughed and yelled "Way to go Jimmy!"
 
The NBA fired Dee Kantor after one or two seasons. This always confused me being she was clearly better than Palmer.

Strange no one has mentioned Bennett Salvatore. Just a horrible ref - seems to always feel the need to "take control" when a game gets physical.
 
The only game that I remember quite clearly for bad reffing was Game 4 of the Western Conference Finals a few years ago against the Spurs. The culprit would be Steve Javie.
 
people literally put violet palmer on these types of lists because she is a woman

there is nothing quantifiable, it's just because she has long hair and a female figure and men are threatened because their big stupid sweaty domain is being compromised somehow

it is stupid and it is sexist, sports are stupid, sports fans are stupid, life is terrible and i hate everyone
 
Classic Bill Simmons line on Violet Palmer from 2005. She topped a list of the six worst refs.

"I went to 35 Clippers games this year and kept a list of the referees in my pocket, which I also used to follow the referees for any televised games. And yes, the referees in the NBA – as a whole – have never been worse. But there were six referees that stuck out as being especially terrible. Here they are:



5. Tom Washington and Rodney Mott (tie) – Two newer guys who were just gawd-awful. My dad described the new breed of refs like this: "They're all built like running backs, they're all incompetent, and they all blow the whistle one-two seconds late every time."



4. Luis Grillo – He's been terrible for like 20 years.



3. Tommy Nunez – He's been terrible for like 30 years.



2. Bennett Salvatore – Always one of the worst, he took it to another level this season. If you see him on the court at the start of the game, get ready for about six technicals, two near-brawls and both coaches having to be restrained by their assistants at various times.



1. Violet Palmer – Here's what I wrote about her four months ago: "During last week's Celtics game, the legendary Violet Palmer was involved, who deserves her own 'SportsCentury' at some point. Nobody has ever been worse at their job, in any vocation – not even the people who work at Home Depot selling Christmas trees. When Violet started officiating a few years ago, she was so incompetent, players and coaches actually avoided arguing with her – whenever she screwed up, they would always glance around helplessly, the same way you would if your puppy dropped a deuce on the living room carpet. But now she's been around for a few years and people are fed up. On Monday night, Doc Rivers was one bad Violet call away from ending up in a white Bronco with Al Cowlings. I love this stuff."
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For the record, Get Down, the Violet Palmer thing is somewhat quantifiable. The NBA has internal rankings of its own referees and assigns the refs that they rank as the best to the playoff games, particularly late round playoff games. Thus, that Violet Palmer barely ever refs playoff games (she was in the league 10 years before she reffed a single one and has only refereed a handful since 2006, none outside of the first round) is an indicator that she's not highly ranked internally.
 
vslice02

You might be the smartest poster on this board. A year or so ago after the Donnaghy (spelling) matter went down I started to wonder if his claims were true. After doing a little research I learned that the probable winner of every NBA game was determined by who was selected to ref the game. If Donnaghy (spelling) could determine the probable winner of every NBA game at an 85% clip just by who the NBA selected to ref, then the NBA, who spends millions and millions evaluating and studying refs certainly knows the probable winner of every game by who they select to ref. Anyway, I read something that evaluated the entire schedule of the jazz and what refs had called what games and the outcome of those games. It was amazing. The jazz had lost every single game for an entire year that Bob Delaney had reffed and lost every game except one that Steve Javie had reffed.

A year or so ago when the Jazz were playing the Lakers in the playoff and the jazz had won a game in LA and Kobe was supposedly hurting with a bad back or something, I turned to my wife and said watch who is selected to ref the next game. I told her delaney or javie would ref. I was wrong, both reffed and the Lakers never looked back.

Those that say Dick is horrible, just don't understand Dick. Dick refs by who he believes is supposed to win or who he believes the NBA wants to win. If the lakers are down in a series and they want to even it out he's your man, just ask Sacramento. However, if the Lakers are up two games in a series and the league needs to extend the series for a little extra revenue they also call in Dick. He knows what is supposed to or needs to happen.

Now I'm not saying the games are fixed because I do not believe that. There is no way the NBA could keep a conspiracy of that size quiet. Some ref would spill the beans and say the NBA told them who they wanted to win. The NBA doesn't need to do that. They just need to assign refs who have grudges or call games one way or the other. For example if I was a ref I would be fair, but because of my hate for the lakers I would call Kobe for every single push off or dirty little play.

Here is the secret the NBA doesn't want you to know. Refs decide games not players.
 
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I would like to see a breakdown of ref names and the % of fouls they called and on what team for every game. For instance the previously mentioned game four with the spurs in the playoffs. I read in the paper that 25 of the 27 fouls Javie called in that game were against the Jazz (to go along with the 5 t's). I know it will never happen, but I would like to see that reported for every game. But even then that wouldn't tell the whole story. A lot of times it is when the fouls are called that matters.
 
Sirkickyass said:
Classic Bill Simmons line on Violet Palmer from 2005. She topped a list of the six worst refs.



For the record, Get Down, the Violet Palmer thing is somewhat quantifiable. The NBA has internal rankings of its own referees and assigns the refs that they rank as the best to the playoff games, particularly late round playoff games. Thus, that Violet Palmer barely ever refs playoff games (she was in the league 10 years before she reffed a single one and has only refereed a handful since 2006, none outside of the first round) is an indicator that she's not highly ranked internally.
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Correction. I didn't word this strongly enough. Palmer has only been selected to ref one playoff game in 10+ years on the job.
 
vslice02 said:
Also ref'd game 5 of the '09 playoffs in L.A. where Ronnie Price got fouled 2 times in a row on drives to the basket and he called nothing from his baseline position - except a technical on Sloan to throw him out.
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hmmm.... And how close were we to winning that game?
 
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