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What is a soul? Do we have one, or many?

In biblical terms, it was an act of God "breathing" into a mere mud model, which caused "man" to become a "living soul". No shortage of variant takes on the idea in scripture, though. People like the idea of having an "eternal" soul that lives on after death and decay of the mortal husk, and they like the idea of the resurrection, too.

Well, we think what we please. We are what we are. God is what He is. I change my ideas when they don't seem to fit the facts. . . .
 
Some deep thinkers say that concepts have a life that is independent of a particular thought or mass of thoughts, since they are trans-individual and trans-situational. They have their ways, they say, of coding and ordering human thought/being in such a dense way that it's fair to say that, in certain moments, a concept is the major ingredient in determining an effect or series of effects. (And for other animals, too, since we are not the only forms of life that think conceptually). And, like other forms of life, concepts have vectors/tendencies/refrains which flow in the direction of their reanimation and renewal. --Think about what the concepts of Eternity and State have done to the ordering and history human life.

Let's skip right to a paradox: the concept of Death is alive. Should we foster that life? My grandfather's death -- specifically when it happened, and where I was at the time -- has had an ongoing impact on my psyche. It's affect is multiplicitous.... parts of it fill me with a sort of remorse which borders on catatonia (he was essentially my father for the first several years of my life, and I was absent for his accident and death, which were sudden); other parts give me a rich sense for character and passage/time... like when I think of the water falling at Iguazu, which is where I was on the day of his funeral.

So, for me, the problem of 'promoting Life' is poorly formed in that phraseology. --Promoting the catatonic forms of Death, which are alive, seems like a bad idea.

I think the problem gets a little clearer if we say that the imperative is to promote forms of life which increase vitality affect or play. The life which is imperative to promote is that which expands the realm of the possible, and which brings forth a greater and proliferating number of sensations. This is why I rally against monolithic models of Truth, which shut down play.


This all reminds me of an experience I had while gardening this year. My girlfriend and I planted a patch of poppies in our yard (of the mild opium-producing variety, which grow to about 5 or 6 feet in height). They're magnificent looking plants, with long arms branching out from the base, leafy greens that look like arugula, and these delicate papery pedals which unfold from a swollen pod about the size of the tip of your finger. We planted these next to some snapdragons and other little soft pedally delicacies. Now, my point: with the latter, common practice is to enjoy those first qualities/signs of spring but then quickly 'deadhead' the bloom, so that plant becomes more of a bushel which will produce more qualities/signs of spring. More blooms. More color. Then quickly deadhead those, too.... and so on. With these plants, there's been this dance with humanity... spring!; cut!; more spring!; cut!... and so on. The drama is a celebration of spring. But you can't behave this way with poppies. If you were to deadhead the bloom, then that leafy arm would not produce another. Instead -- and this is especially true if you are after the opium in the pod -- you enjoy the bloom and its passage. Once the bloom has fallen, the pod remains, like a lantern on a stick. In it, is the milky residue that contains opium. In short, it's the autumnal signs/qualities that you're after: the opium builds up with duration only. The drama is a celebration of the autumnal.

Now, all this made me realize how readily we abort autumnal qualities. We'll dig up a snapdragon the second it stops its springtime affairs, paying little or no attention to its autumnal phase.

I'm not in the business of saying whether we'd be better off enjoying the autumn phase of snapdragons, so I won't. I can't speak for "we" using these gardening materials, but I do feel empowered to speak for "we" in other scenarios. I can tell you that I've enjoyed the snapdragons' autumnal expressions.

Your definition of "Life" seems to focus on the process of change in things over time. A river moving a mountain into the sea. . . .

I'm believing there are more things and more worlds than what we know, even more "dimensions" packed inside whatever "space" is. "Life" is relevant to the capacity to act. A tree growing is "acting". I guess a dead tree rotting is "acting" , too. But we usually don't consider it "living", so I won't go that far with my idea of "Life".

I think "Life" is an aberration or anomaly that requires thought and planning and work to propagate. It is always in danger in our present "world", and requires intelligent care. That is our place in it all. Hence the moral imperative to act to promote life.
 
Your definition of "Life" seems to focus on the process of change in things over time. A river moving a mountain into the sea. . . .

I'm believing there are more things and more worlds than what we know, even more "dimensions" packed inside whatever "space" is. "Life" is relevant to the capacity to act. A tree growing is "acting". I guess a dead tree rotting is "acting" , too. But we usually don't consider it "living", so I won't go that far with my idea of "Life".

I think "Life" is an aberration or anomaly that requires thought and planning and work to propagate. It is always in danger in our present "world", and requires intelligent care. That is our place in it all. Hence the moral imperative to act to promote life.

In short: Act with ambition.

I agree with a lot of your philosophy. I feel with the age of information a lot of society will eventually come to something close of this conclusion.
 
Your definition of "Life" seems to focus on the process of change in things over time. A river moving a mountain into the sea. . . .

I'm believing there are more things and more worlds than what we know, even more "dimensions" packed inside whatever "space" is. "Life" is relevant to the capacity to act. A tree growing is "acting". I guess a dead tree rotting is "acting" , too. But we usually don't consider it "living", so I won't go that far with my idea of "Life".

I think "Life" is an aberration or anomaly that requires thought and planning and work to propagate. It is always in danger in our present "world", and requires intelligent care. That is our place in it all. Hence the moral imperative to act to promote life.

well, "rotting" is accomplished thanks to hordes of living things. Acting things. We have a habit of calling it "decomposition", when really it is "composition". I suppose if you conceived of the tree as a singular thing, then that thing no longer lives... but the tree was never a singular thing... it was always an aggregate.

I don't think my definition of life is as simple as "change of things over time," but I suppose it isn't too far from it. Does a river live? That definitely depends on your definition of a river... but Andy Goldsworthy seems to think a river lives. And, geomorphologists talk at lengths of a river's age (from a young, straight river; to a braided river; to a meandering river; etc.) and of its relations/dependence on everyday 'living' things in the determination of its banks.

We're really pushing deep into some interesting concepts.... I'm curious what your take on "thought" and "planning" are. I'm also a bit surprised to hear you refer to life in fragile terms... a life which inherently requires a stewardship. Improbability and fragility certainly aren't the same thing.
 
well, "rotting" is accomplished thanks to hordes of living things. Acting things. We have a habit of calling it "decomposition", when really it is "composition". I suppose if you conceived of the tree as a singular thing, then that thing no longer lives... but the tree was never a singular thing... it was always an aggregate.

I don't think my definition of life is as simple as "change of things over time," but I suppose it isn't too far from it. Does a river live? That definitely depends on your definition of a river... but Andy Goldsworthy seems to think a river lives. And, geomorphologists talk at lengths of a river's age (from a young, straight river; to a braided river; to a meandering river; etc.) and of its relations/dependence on everyday 'living' things in the determination of its banks.

We're really pushing deep into some interesting concepts.... I'm curious what your take on "thought" and "planning" are. I'm also a bit surprised to hear you refer to life in fragile terms... a life which inherently requires a stewardship. Improbability and fragility certainly aren't the same thing.

I hate to go all dialectical in discussing stuff, because I confuse myself and can't expect anyone else to think I'm anything more than the fool on the hill. But here goes:

I had serious problems taking standard thermodynamics as taught in physics and chemistry courses in college seriously when they define entropy as the inevitable winding down of an ordered universe towards a vast uniform state of total disorganization. . . . which made me wonder if I was the only human being who views a perfectly ordered homogenous reality as the highest of all ordered states. . . .
 
I hate to go all dialectical in discussing stuff, because I confuse myself and can't expect anyone else to think I'm anything more than the fool on the hill. But here goes:

I had serious problems taking standard thermodynamics as taught in physics and chemistry courses in college seriously when they define entropy as the inevitable winding down of an ordered universe towards a vast uniform state of total disorganization. . . . which made me wonder if I was the only human being who views a perfectly ordered homogenous reality as the highest of all ordered states. . . .

a strict materialist would have to argue that "thought" is a specific state of neural firing that can achieve a persistent and reproducible existence inside somebody's skull, and you'd probably annoy them with questions of how two different brains in two separate skulls can achieve the same "thought". A plan is perhaps an ordered system of thoughts directed at achieving some external change in the universe.

God, as I conceive of the notion, is evidently a planner of epic proportions, having basically "created" the universe as we conceive of it, at least according to some religions. Joseph Smith would have said the material and spirit "elements" existed before God imagined them, or created them, and that the creation of God consisted of acting upon what already was with purpose, and largely succeeding in do what was intended in that plan. I suspect you of harboring other possible notions.
 
I hate to go all dialectical in discussing stuff, because I confuse myself and can't expect anyone else to think I'm anything more than the fool on the hill. But here goes:

I had serious problems taking standard thermodynamics as taught in physics and chemistry courses in college seriously when they define entropy as the inevitable winding down of an ordered universe towards a vast uniform state of total disorganization. . . . which made me wonder if I was the only human being who views a perfectly ordered homogenous reality as the highest of all ordered states. . . .

You seem to be postulating an ordered system of things that includes ideas such as "Truth", taken as objective discrete ideas which we could actually seek and accumulate within our possessions, as intellectual property of sorts.

"Truth" would be a subset of all possible ideas or thoughts, as those not "True" would be the false ones or useless ones or evil ones. Likewise, "Plans" or "Intents", would break down into ones that are "virtuous" or "evil" depending on the outcomes sought.
 
well, "rotting" is accomplished thanks to hordes of living things. Acting things. We have a habit of calling it "decomposition", when really it is "composition". I suppose if you conceived of the tree as a singular thing, then that thing no longer lives... but the tree was never a singular thing... it was always an aggregate.

I don't think my definition of life is as simple as "change of things over time," but I suppose it isn't too far from it. Does a river live? That definitely depends on your definition of a river... but Andy Goldsworthy seems to think a river lives. And, geomorphologists talk at lengths of a river's age (from a young, straight river; to a braided river; to a meandering river; etc.) and of its relations/dependence on everyday 'living' things in the determination of its banks.

We're really pushing deep into some interesting concepts.... I'm curious what your take on "thought" and "planning" are. I'm also a bit surprised to hear you refer to life in fragile terms... a life which inherently requires a stewardship. Improbability and fragility certainly aren't the same thing.

I might be wrong, of course. Maybe "Life" can go through the vortex of a black hole and come out on the other side still possessed of whatever is the basic essence of "Life".

I note, however, that in the vast outlands of the Universe that are on this side of the black holes, Life seems fragile and transitory. I could hope I'm just wrong in that perception, but if that's not the way things are, "death" still removes us from our friends usually one at a time.
 
A river having no name seems like one of the saddest things. But living in the desert, I appreciate dry washes, and have seen some flash floods come and go. I have heard some rumors about the Arabs viewing washes as rivers, realizing basically that there is usually some water beneath the sand. . . . .
 
I hate to go all dialectical in discussing stuff, because I confuse myself and can't expect anyone else to think I'm anything more than the fool on the hill. But here goes:

I had serious problems taking standard thermodynamics as taught in physics and chemistry courses in college seriously when they define entropy as the inevitable winding down of an ordered universe towards a vast uniform state of total disorganization. . . . which made me wonder if I was the only human being who views a perfectly ordered homogenous reality as the highest of all ordered states. . . .

well, standard thermodynamics has as been largely abandoned (except for its ossified existence in classrooms). The active edge of research, as far as I understand it, is using non-equilibrium thermodynamics... a very different beast. One more step toward kicking Plato out of science.
 
a strict materialist would have to argue that "thought" is a specific state of neural firing that can achieve a persistent and reproducible existence inside somebody's skull, and you'd probably annoy them with questions of how two different brains in two separate skulls can achieve the same "thought". A plan is perhaps an ordered system of thoughts directed at achieving some external change in the universe.

God, as I conceive of the notion, is evidently a planner of epic proportions, having basically "created" the universe as we conceive of it, at least according to some religions. Joseph Smith would have said the material and spirit "elements" existed before God imagined them, or created them, and that the creation of God consisted of acting upon what already was with purpose, and largely succeeding in do what was intended in that plan. I suspect you of harboring other possible notions.

If you follow the radical materialists from Spinoza down, you'd find that the 'process of thought' has gone way beyond what's happening in the skull. I'm not sure whom you're referring to with the label "strict materialist," but I think even most of this crowd has become much less brain-centric.

And, surely you know Spinoza, right? Your ideas overlap with his in significant ways.

As far as planning goes, the mechanisms of evolution pretty much destroy any notion of planning........... that is, unless you believe planning is the grandest of all things summed together, and then seat that notion within a mostly unknowable God...... In other words, it's literally the largest possible or most spiritualized definition of planning imaginable. A far cry from the planning I did about my breakfast.

I'm actually aware of Joseph Smith's philosophy on these matters, and I find his musings to be far more insightful than anything you're likely to hear in an Evangelical Church. Still, you're right: I harbor different notions; since I don't start with the presumption of a God, I find no use-value for this blown-out rendering of "planning."
 
You seem to be postulating an ordered system of things that includes ideas such as "Truth", taken as objective discrete ideas which we could actually seek and accumulate within our possessions, as intellectual property of sorts.

I'd say it pretty differently, probably, but.... yeah... sort of. I wouldn't stick too firmly to the notion of 'order', since things are under constant variation -- including memory, which is implied by what you say about accumulation (but even things under variation can be said to be ordered...just don't want to get confused about this word.... I hate when discussions die on the unproductive dichotomy between order and disorder). But, yes, memories are discrete things that have accumulations and relations to the here & now or lurk like dormant seeds waiting for the right conditions.

I'm not sure how much any of this counts as "possession" or "property"... but, yeah, I'd say we live our own truths because we undergo our own sensations.

"Truth" would be a subset of all possible ideas or thoughts, as those not "True" would be the false ones or useless ones or evil ones. Likewise, "Plans" or "Intents", would break down into ones that are "virtuous" or "evil" depending on the outcomes sought.

nah... now we're getting a bit too logical and systematic. These dramas necessitate a discussion about the unconscious. Perhaps another time...
 
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