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Erin Andrews - Awarded $55M

Especially the ones representing the hotel operator.
Yeah, they got paid for producing that result, which is ridiculous. But the entire legal system is so corrupt and so poorly designed. One of the big problems in healthcare is the enormous costs created by our legal system. Doctors pay huge malpractice insurance premiums. Pharmaceuticals build the cost of the eventual lawsuits into every single drug. People sign on to the inevitable class action lawsuits like a bunch of lemmings. At settlement they get virtually nothing, and the lawyers walk away with a fortune. It happens again and again and again. If someone has money, you can bet that lawyers are going to find cases to bring against them.
 
Wow.. that's pretty amazing if true.

Not licensed in Tennessee, but I did go to law school there.

I think there's a few parts of this analysis that are questionable. Tennessee had joint and several liability on mixed intentional/negligent actions until 2013. The elimination of joint and several liability doesn't apply retroactively via the statutory change. Unless there's something I'm missing here, it looks like Marriott would be on the hook for the full judgment, not just their allocated portion.

Source for the joint and several liability timeline: https://www.howell-fisher.com/pdfs/Tennessee_Limits_Joint_and_Several_Liability.pdf

The assumption about the lawyer fee rate is also a total guess. And it looks to me to be on the high end. Andrews probably had more power than most to negotiate a favorable rate. I think a more reasonable guess is closer to 30%.


Man, if they tried to do that to me I think I'd quit.

It is seriously so stupid that Marriott is being punished like this. Is there anyone out there (other than this jury) who honestly believes the hotel owners made a $27 million dollar mistake? Lawyers suck!

Punitive damages are not compensatory damages. The decision is not "did this decision cost $27 million" but "what is the amount that would cause Marriott to never let this happen again?"

Yeah, they got paid for producing that result, which is ridiculous. But the entire legal system is so corrupt and so poorly designed. One of the big problems in healthcare is the enormous costs created by our legal system. Doctors pay huge malpractice insurance premiums. Pharmaceuticals build the cost of the eventual lawsuits into every single drug. People sign on to the inevitable class action lawsuits like a bunch of lemmings. At settlement they get virtually nothing, and the lawyers walk away with a fortune. It happens again and again and again. If someone has money, you can bet that lawyers are going to find cases to bring against them.

Imma go out on a limb here and guess that you aren't involved in the profession and have little legal expertise or knowledge. I'll even go one step further and say that you're not particularly conversant in the components of medical billing (spoiler: no one is; medical billing in the United States is incomprehensible).

The above is a mixed hodge podge of tort reform talking points generally pushed by conservatives. None of the above (class actions?) are particularly relevant to this case.

Insurance companies, in fact, are actually the most frequent filers of tort claims because they use them to reduce the cost of premiums by recovering amounts paid through subrogation procedures. Somehow that inconvenient little fact gets left out of the tort reform discussion.

Source: More than 50% of my current work is subrogation recovery on behalf of insurance clients.
 
Punitive damages are not compensatory damages. The decision is not "did this decision cost $27 million" but "what is the amount that would cause Marriott to never let this happen again?"
You really think this is reasonable logic? The employee who gave the information about the room number is not impacted by this enormous award. I guess the award could prevent the operators of that hotel from ever doing this again by putting them out of business. To me this exorbitant award is just as bad, albeit in a different way, as the crime that brought it about.



Imma go out on a limb here and guess that you aren't involved in the profession and have little legal expertise or knowledge. I'll even go one step further and say that you're not particularly conversant in the components of medical billing (spoiler: no one is; medical billing in the United States is incomprehensible).

The above is a mixed hodge podge of tort reform talking points generally pushed by conservatives. None of the above (class actions?) are particularly relevant to this case.

Insurance companies, in fact, are actually the most frequent filers of tort claims because they use them to reduce the cost of premiums by recovering amounts paid through subrogation procedures. Somehow that inconvenient little fact gets left out of the tort reform discussion.

Source: More than 50% of my current work is subrogation recovery on behalf of insurance clients.
Hmm. I wonder why people hate lawyers so much. Maybe because of arguments like the one above. I'll bet very few law students walk into their first class ready to accept logic like you just laid out, but by the time they earn their degree nearly all of them believe that arguments like the one you just made are perfectly reasonable.
 
You really think this is reasonable logic? The employee who gave the information about the room number is not impacted by this enormous award. I guess the award could prevent the operators of that hotel from ever doing this again by putting them out of business. To me this exorbitant award is just as bad, albeit in a different way, as the crime that brought it about.

All you're really saying is that you don't agree with the concept of punitive damages. That's not an argument that the damages award itself was unreasonable but that you don't think punitive damages should be awarded at all.

On that point I would say that hundreds of years of experience teaches us that punitive damages are the mechanism required to force large entities to not simply accept that some amount of unsafe behavior can be written off as a business expense. We've tried a lot of different schemes to force that result in different states over the last two centuries. Punitive damages get the job done the best. Hell, even treble damages go a long way in motivating behavior changes.

Hmm. I wonder why people hate lawyers so much. Maybe because of arguments like the one above. I'll bet very few law students walk into their first class ready to accept logic like you just laid out, but by the time they earn their degree nearly all of them believe that arguments like the one you just made are perfectly reasonable.

"Blah blah lawyers suck." You don't have anything to say to rebut what the actual effect of tort law is on insurance rates so you just claim that lawyers.

Here's a clue: I work on behalf of insurance companies very frequently. When I do so, my entire job is to use various bodies of tort law to recover on claims that insurance companies paid out previously. Insurance companies know that, on average, they will recover 12-30% of the amounts paid out through subrogation, depending on the type of claim and the year. Insurance companies are, in effect, investment entities. Little operating profit actually comes from the collection of premiums. Competitive rates are teasers to get you to allow insurance companies to borrow your money so that they can invest it at a profit. If you believe that average subrogation payouts aren't calculated into your premiums then you are simply incredibly ill-informed on the topic.

Tort reforms are always designed to work one way: to prevent individuals from recovering and to allow subrogated insurers to continue their recovery. Somehow they've convinced people like you that a very tiny percentage of cases (well under a tenth of a percent) are the actual cause of all their insurance rate hikes. Congrats, you've been snookered. I'm sure that's a lawyer's fault though.
 
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All you're really saying is that you don't agree with the concept of punitive damages. That's not an argument that the damages award itself was unreasonable but that you don't think punitive damages should be awarded at all.

On that point I would say that hundreds of years of experience teaches us that punitive damages are the mechanism required to force large entities to not simply accept that some amount of unsafe behavior can be written off as a business expense. We've tried a lot of different schemes to force that result in different states over the last two centuries. Punitive damages get the job done the best. Hell, even treble damages go a long way in motivating behavior changes.



"Blah blah lawyers suck." You don't have anything to say to rebut what the actual effect of tort law is on insurance rates so you just claim that lawyers.

Here's a clue: I work on behalf of insurance companies very frequently. When I do so, my entire job is to use various bodies of tort law to recover on claims that insurance companies paid out previously. Insurance companies know that, on average, they will recover 12-30% of the amounts paid out through subrogation, depending on the type of claim and the year. Insurance companies are, in effect, investment entities. Little operating profit actually comes from the collection of premiums. Competitive rates are teasers to get you to allow insurance companies to borrow your money so that they can invest it at a profit. If you believe that average subrogation payouts are calculated into your premiums then you are simply incredibly ill-informed on the topic.

Tort reforms are always designed to work one way: to prevent individuals from recovering and to allow subrogated insurers to continue their recovery. Somehow they've convinced people like you that a very tiny percentage of cases (well under a tenth of a percent) are the actual cause of all their insurance rate hikes. Congrats, you've been snookered. I'm sure that's a lawyer's fault though.

Great insights here about how the insurance companies work, thanks Kicky.
 
All you're really saying is that you don't agree with the concept of punitive damages. That's not an argument that the damages award itself was unreasonable but that you don't think punitive damages should be awarded at all.

On that point I would say that hundreds of years of experience teaches us that punitive damages are the mechanism required to force large entities to not simply accept that some amount of unsafe behavior can be written off as a business expense. We've tried a lot of different schemes to force that result in different states over the last two centuries. Punitive damages get the job done the best. Hell, even treble damages go a long way in motivating behavior changes.



"Blah blah lawyers suck." You don't have anything to say to rebut what the actual effect of tort law is on insurance rates so you just claim that lawyers.

Here's a clue: I work on behalf of insurance companies very frequently. When I do so, my entire job is to use various bodies of tort law to recover on claims that insurance companies paid out previously. Insurance companies know that, on average, they will recover 12-30% of the amounts paid out through subrogation, depending on the type of claim and the year. Insurance companies are, in effect, investment entities. Little operating profit actually comes from the collection of premiums. Competitive rates are teasers to get you to allow insurance companies to borrow your money so that they can invest it at a profit. If you believe that average subrogation payouts are calculated into your premiums then you are simply incredibly ill-informed on the topic.

Tort reforms are always designed to work one way: to prevent individuals from recovering and to allow subrogated insurers to continue their recovery. Somehow they've convinced people like you that a very tiny percentage of cases (well under a tenth of a percent) are the actual cause of all their insurance rate hikes. Congrats, you've been snookered. I'm sure that's a lawyer's fault though.
Treble damages in a case like the one PKM mentioned were an agent defrauded his client make perfect sense. Tens of millions of dollars in a case where a hotel clerk gave out a piece of information that any hotel clerk should know without even being told that they should not give out is obscenely ridiculous. I'm unfortunately not surprised that a lawyer apparently can't grasp that distinction, though.

I'm certain that I know a lot more about the insurance stuff than you think I do, and some of the claims in your post lead me to believe that you know a lot less than you're claiming to. For instance, everyone knows that insurance companies make big profits off investments, but your implication that rates are simply teasers to get to use people's money is laughable. Actuarial departments employ very smart people using very complex models in an effort to figure out what claims they will be liable for if they offer certain coverages. They have massive amounts of data that enable them to make very accurate guesses regarding the real costs of insuring large groups of people, because while they usually have no way of knowing which healthy individuals are about to get sick, they have lots of information about what percentages of a population with certain traits will become ill. And using that info, like any business which wants to maximize it's profits, they attempt to market their services in the best way they can. And BTW, do you know of a single person who believes that recent health care rates are "teasers". They are teasing us by increasing the amount we have to pay year after year after year?

But the strangest thing about your argument is that you are responding to a bunch of things I never even said, and failing to reply to all of the points that I actually did make.
 
Treble damages in a case like the one PKM mentioned were an agent defrauded his client make perfect sense. Tens of millions of dollars in a case where a hotel clerk gave out a piece of information that any hotel clerk should know without even being told that they should not give out is obscenely ridiculous. I'm unfortunately not surprised that a lawyer apparently can't grasp that distinction, though.

You appear to be mistaken about a fundamental issue in this case. The hotel employee in question did not just give out a public figure's room number. In fact, upon the stalker's request, they booked him into the adjacent room which shared a common door.

This, amazingly, did not turn out to be something that was strictly forbidden.

And yes, this makes your argument much worse. I understand facts are inconvenient.

You also do not appear to have knowledge of, or simply disagree with, other longstanding legal doctrines. Here, the doctrine is respondeat superior. In essence, if the employee does the deed while acting in the scope of their employment, then the buck stops with the employer. Again, this is the rule we've worked out because otherwise many plaintiffs get stuck holding the bag on their own injuries while employers just stare at the injured party and say "well I didn't tell him to do that!"

Different states come down different ways on the priority between compensating those are in whojured and making sure that no one pays more than the amount for which they are personally responsible. There's a whole spectrum of that decision that plays out along a variety of fault allocation schemes from state to state. But, amazingly, there is broad consensus that respondeat superior is a just and fair rule because the balance of distribution of the harm plainly favors compensating an injured party over insulating an employer from the bad acts of the people they were supposed to be supervising. To the best of my knowledge, all 50 states recognize the doctrine. But I guess you know better?

I'm certain that I know a lot more about the insurance stuff than you think I do, and some of the claims in your post lead me to believe that you know a lot less than you're claiming to. For instance, everyone knows that insurance companies make big profits off investments, but your implication that rates are simply teasers to get to use people's money is laughable. Actuarial departments employ very smart people using very complex models in an effort to figure out what claims they will be liable for if they offer certain coverages. They have massive amounts of data that enable them to make very accurate guesses regarding the real costs of insuring large groups of people, because while they usually have no way of knowing which healthy individuals are about to get sick, they have lots of information about what percentages of a population with certain traits will become ill. And using that info, like any business which wants to maximize it's profits, they attempt to market their services in the best way they can. And BTW, do you know of a single person who believes that recent health care rates are "teasers". They are teasing us by increasing the amount we have to pay year after year after year?

But the strangest thing about your argument is that you are responding to a bunch of things I never even said, and failing to reply to all of the points that I actually did make.

That may be because, like here, you frequently combine a large number of topics together in ways that are garbled and only make half-sense. I am the lighthouse trying to guide you towards shore while you futilely steer yourself into the ocean of bad ideas.

Example: The entire discussion about subrogated recovery in the tort context refers, in general, to an entirely different body of insurance than health insurance.* So you point out that rates are set via actuarial pool (again a point not in dispute, no one said they picked the rate randomly) but then go on a bizarre rant about health insurance rates that are not in any way relevant to the larger point about the effect of tort law on insurance rates or the insurer's participation as a frequent tort plaintiff. I'm not particularly interested in trying to educate you on this topic further, but suffice to say that you might want to invest in a little more book learning before you spout off about the legal profession, and particular bodies of law, that you have no knowledge on.




* It is possible to have subrogated health insurance claims, frequently in the context of medicare, however those claims are rarely pursued by the insuring entity directly. Instead they function as a lien on any personal injury recovery by individual plaintiffs. Consequently, that situation is irrelevant to the above discussion, but I present the footnote for completeness and clarity.
 
You appear to be mistaken about a fundamental issue in this case. The hotel employee in question did not just give out a public figure's room number. In fact, upon the stalker's request, they booked him into the adjacent room which shared a common door.

This, amazingly, did not turn out to be something that was strictly forbidden.

And yes, this makes your argument much worse. I understand facts are inconvenient.

You also do not appear to have knowledge of, or simply disagree with, other longstanding legal doctrines. Here, the doctrine is respondeat superior. In essence, if the employee does the deed while acting in the scope of their employment, then the buck stops with the employer. Again, this is the rule we've worked out because otherwise many plaintiffs get stuck holding the bag on their own injuries while employers just stare at the injured party and say "well I didn't tell him to do that!"

Different states come down different ways on the priority between compensating those are in whojured and making sure that no one pays more than the amount for which they are personally responsible. There's a whole spectrum of that decision that plays out along a variety of fault allocation schemes from state to state. But, amazingly, there is broad consensus that respondeat superior is a just and fair rule because the balance of distribution of the harm plainly favors compensating an injured party over insulating an employer from the bad acts of the people they were supposed to be supervising. To the best of my knowledge, all 50 states recognize the doctrine. But I guess you know better?
We both agree that the hotel had liability. We obviously disagree about how much it was. In my view this award was not simply excessive, it was extremely excessive. I believe that awards like this have a negative impact on our society as a whole. You obviously disagree. Oh well.



That may be because, like here, you frequently combine a large number of topics together in ways that are garbled and only make half-sense. I am the lighthouse trying to guide you towards shore while you futilely steer yourself into the ocean of bad ideas.

Example: The entire discussion about subrogated recovery in the tort context refers, in general, to an entirely different body of insurance than health insurance.* So you point out that rates are set via actuarial pool (again a point not in dispute, no one said they picked the rate randomly) but then go on a bizarre rant about health insurance rates that are not in any way relevant to the larger point about the effect of tort law on insurance rates or the insurer's participation as a frequent tort plaintiff. I'm not particularly interested in trying to educate you on this topic further, but suffice to say that you might want to invest in a little more book learning before you spout off about the legal profession, and particular bodies of law, that you have no knowledge on.




* It is possible to have subrogated health insurance claims, frequently in the context of medicare, however those claims are rarely pursued by the insuring entity directly. Instead they function as a lien on any personal injury recovery by individual plaintiffs. Consequently, that situation is irrelevant to the above discussion, but I present the footnote for completeness and clarity.
Nice job of obfuscating the fact that you backed off your previous claims. Very lawyerly move there.

In an earlier post I said that first year law students typically see the world very differently than law school graduates. During the intervening years common sense is gradually replaced with all sorts of complex legal dictum, and thinking like yours eventually seems perfectly normal to lawyers. It's not surprising that lawyers see that as a good thing. Obviously, among other reasons, their careers depend upon it. Whether you can understand it or not, though, a large percentage of the non-lawyer population see it as a bad thing.

In very simple terms, you believe awards like the Andrews verdict are good and just, and you can go into great detail about how they stand upon legal president. It's obvious to everyone that the actual perpetrator could not possibly pay a huge fine, so it makes perfect sense from your legal view to look for any deep pockets that are attached in any way to the case, and then go after them as hard as you possibly can. You cannot deny that when lawyers look at taking a case one of the first (and primary) things they consider is whether or not it can be attached to someone with a lot of money or a lot of insurance coverage. Yes, this makes perfect sense from a lawyers perspective and I know I will never convince you that this sort of thinking is wrong, but effectively the act of holding wealth or of somehow being legally vulnerable becomes the crime and the lawyers get on it like flies on ****.

If Erin Andrews had spent that night at a budget family owned hotel this case would have had an extremely different outcome because the lawyers who are currently celebrating this enormous verdict would not have considered touching the case with a ten foot pole. So go on with your lawyerly logic and thinking that settlements like this do some sort of service to the public. Down the road someday when everyone is wondering how come it's so much more expensive to travel within the US than anywhere else in the world (and some politician is promoting the innovative new idea of Universal Travel Care) maybe take a second to think about how these sorts of judgements actually get paid for.
 
Ok so it is not a rocket science to google " Erin Andrews Naked" and you will get poor quality recording made through door key hole to review. She is naked, brushing her hair and occasionally turning around to check on her ***. Nothing special. Nothing dirty. Nothing worth 55 mil.
 
If this happened to your mom, wife, or sister would all y'all bitching about the amount of $$ voice your outrage? I highly ****ing doubt it. Meatheads.


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Ok so it is not a rocket science to google " Erin Andrews Naked" and you will get poor quality recording made through door key hole to review. She is naked, brushing her hair and occasionally turning around to check on her ***. Nothing special. Nothing dirty. Nothing worth 55 mil.
I agree. I looked it up the other day. Lame stuff. Will never watch again. Waste of time
 
If this happened to your mom, wife, or sister would all y'all bitching about the amount of $$ voice your outrage? I highly ****ing doubt it. Meatheads.


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If my wife got millions and millions of dollars for the ****ty video I saw that is neither embarrassing or sexy or worthy of a second watch and my wife's career got a nice boost at the same time then I would be ecstatic.

Some people have all the luck.
 
If my wife got millions and millions of dollars for the ****ty video I saw that is neither embarrassing or sexy or worthy of a second watch and my wife's career got a nice boost at the same time then I would be ecstatic.

Some people have all the luck.

You are lucky, what if it was your daughter? I don't know if you have one, and if not, what if you did? Would your nude daughter on the internet be worth $55M? Would you feel lucky to have her naked body on display for the word, including all the pedo's out there, to see? Erin Andrews is someone's daughter.
 
If she was offered 55mil for some nudes and went for it that would be one thing. She may have gotten some attention from the photos, but she didn't ask for that kind of attention. People do have the right to make these decisions for themselves.
 
You are lucky, what if it was your daughter? I don't know if you have one, and if not, what if you did? Would your nude daughter on the internet be worth $55M? Would you feel lucky to have her naked body on display for the word, including all the pedo's out there, to see? Erin Andrews is someone's daughter.
When I saw the video I didn't really think her naked body was on full display.
I couldn't really see anything.

I would definitely rather have my daughter with a very short, blurry, poorly filmed couple of seconds of nudity in the internet for millions and millions than have her be a broke stripper or pornstar though.

And ya it would suck but then I would know that she never has to worry about money again and she would be so happy and healthy going forward for the rest of her life.

No one will remember this about andrews in 2 years. She still be rich doe
 
You are lucky, what if it was your daughter? I don't know if you have one, and if not, what if you did? Would your nude daughter on the internet be worth $55M? Would you feel lucky to have her naked body on display for the word, including all the pedo's out there, to see? Erin Andrews is someone's daughter.

I would hope my daughter would be smart enough to take the offer of a blurry nude 10 second video where you don't see anything for 55 million dollars.

I'll ****ing swing my dick around like a helicopter on video for 55 million.
 
Plus, I mean bad things are going to happen to my daughter. That's a fact of life.
She might get her heart broke. She might need stitches at some point, break bones, get addicted to some substance, be molested, raped, beaten by a boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife, struggle to make ends meet, miscarriage, get an abortion, carwreck, cancer, the list goes on and on.

As far as bad things in life go im not sure where a short video of blurry nudity ranks.

I do know that those other bad things that might happen in life won't come with a reward like 27 million dollars however
 
I would hope my daughter would be smart enough to take the offer of a blurry nude 10 second video where you don't see anything for 55 million dollars.

I'll ****ing swing my dick around like a helicopter on video for 55 million.

Plus, I mean bad things are going to happen to my daughter. That's a fact of life.
She might get her heart broke. She might need stitches at some point, break bones, get addicted to some substance, be molested, raped, beaten by a boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife, struggle to make ends meet, miscarriage, get an abortion, carwreck, cancer, the list goes on and on.

As far as bad things in life go im not sure where a short video of blurry nudity ranks.

I do know that those other bad things that might happen in life won't come with a reward like 27 million dollars however



She is famous so it's a lot different. Add to that she works on a completely sexist industry.


But the main point here has absolutely nothing to do with the money. The dude and the hotel violated her personal privacy, in a country that values our freedoms above most other things. She didn't choose to make a blurry nude video. It was against her will. Whether or not she would have taken the money is not in question, and the "reward" has more to do with the hotel industry not letting **** like this happen than it does with providing a "fair compensation"
 
She is famous so it's a lot different. Add to that she works on a completely sexist industry.


But the main point here has absolutely nothing to do with the money. The dude and the hotel violated her personal privacy, in a country that values our freedoms above most other things. She didn't choose to make a blurry nude video. It was against her will. Whether or not she would have taken the money is not in question, and the "reward" has more to do with the hotel industry not letting **** like this happen than it does with providing a "fair compensation"
I don't disagree with any of this. Good post.

My point was more that I don't think this is some tragedy for andrews and if this exact scenario happened to my daughter it definitely wouldn't be the end of the world and likely wouldn't even be near the top of the list of bad things that happened in her life
 
I don't disagree with any of this. Good post.

My point was more that I don't think this is some tragedy for andrews and if this exact scenario happened to my daughter it definitely wouldn't be the end of the world and likely wouldn't even be near the top of the list of bad things that happened in her life

But it would be awesome to get tens of millions of dollars for it though. Haha.
 
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