Looking for a new team

[gregbroncs]

SEASON GP GS MIN FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OR DR REB AST BLK STL PF TO PTS
'05-'06 80 47 28.8 4.2-10.1 .421 1.1-2.7 .416 1.2-1.7 .704 0.4 2.0 2.4 4.5 0.2 0.8 2.9 1.8 10.8

^^^^ Deron William's Rookie Year


Season Team GP GS MIN FGM FGA FG% 3PM 3PA 3P% FTM FTA FT% OFF DEF TRB AST STL BLK PF TOV PTS
2014-15 UTH 82 41 22.2 1.77 5.07 .349 1.01 3.22 .314 0.24 0.39 .625 0.33 1.27 1.60 2.41 0.50 0.17 1.79 1.44 4.79

^^^^^^^ Dante Exum's Rookie Year

There you go. DWill was better in literally almost every stat.

He was older and far more experienced. That was the point of my post. And yet Deron was never good enough to get this team even mildly into title contention.

 

[GVC]

I think that rebuild failed because they tried to do it in a hurry. I think they were pulling one over on the fan base far more then than they are now. I'll give KOC credit for this, back then they wanted to be in the playoffs and did not care about winning a title or trying to rebuild the right way. He did what his bosses wanted and he did it really well. But if you think than team was assembled with a title in mind your fooling yourself. KOC had tons of money and a high draft pick in a really good draft. How did DL have more than that? Also KOC had a potential cornerstone piece already on the roster in AK. People forget just how good AK was that year those scrubs made the playoffs.

1. You think this team is being built with a championship in mind more than those Deron-Boozer teams? How do you figure? How is this approach better? Be specific.

2. KOC inherited AK, Harpring, and virtually nothing else. DL inherited a playoff team with two fringe all-stars, and 4 young lottery picks on rookie contracts -- two of whom are the current franchise cornerstones. What the ****?

 

[Shad]

I guess getting to the playoffs 4 out of the 6 seasons he played here (including 3 confernce semifinals, and 1 conference finals) isn't good enough for gregbroncs. Call that never good enough is laughable. We have a team border-lining 8th place and you call DWill never good enough? You need to check some stats out before you type and post. LOL! Making you look bad brah.

 

[fishonjazz]

I changed my mind. The jazz suck, their players suck, management sucks, we will never go after free agents and free agents will never come here, the best years are in the past, no players will stay on the jazz when they become unrestricted free agents, our young guys will never amount to anything.

 

[gregbroncs]

1. You think this team is being built with a championship in mind more than those Deron-Boozer teams? How do you figure? How is this approach better? Be specific.

2. KOC inherited AK, Harpring, and virtually nothing else. DL inherited a playoff team with two fringe all-stars, and 4 young lottery picks on rookie contracts -- two of whom are the current franchise cornerstones. What the ****?

I think they are trying to do it right this time. I think the last team was assembled to make the playoffs and nothing more. Whether it works this time I'll wait to see. I'm not sure this approach is better, I'm optimistic that it is and I for one am still seeing improvement in this team. Eventually, maybe even this year they will need to make a move. I'm just don't believe that the pessimism you and Shad feel is fair or warranted yet.
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THIS WAS A PLAYOFF TEAM WITHOUT THE INJURIES. That is the part I don't get. Maybe the west was weaker this year, or maybe the top 4 teams were just so good the rest had to lose more. Maybe the bottom (like the Jazz) were stronger so the middle had to lose more. It's a little disingenuous to just assume the west was weaker because the middle didn't win 50 games, a lot goes into that. But despite all of that this team was in the playoff race up to the last week of the season. I said before the season that, that was what I expected. The Jazz exceeded my expectations this year because they did what I expected despite the staggering # of injuries they suffered.
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KOC had and spent a ton of money bringing in Okur and Boozer. It kept the team in the playoffs, that was the goal. If that was the goal now I think they would have employed the same approach. Because they haven't I have to believe that they are trying to do it right this time. If that were the goal they would have tried to keep Millsap.

 

[gregbroncs]

I guess getting to the playoffs 4 out of the 6 seasons he played here (including 3 confernce semifinals, and 1 conference finals) isn't good enough for gregbroncs. Call that never good enough is laughable. We have a team border-lining 8th place and you call DWill never good enough? You need to check some stats out before you type and post. LOL! Making you look bad brah.

4 out of 6 years? Wow what an accomplishment. The conference finals was a fluke and they got blown out because of it. They got beat down soundly every time they played a real contender in the playoffs. He did that with a lot of experienced pieces around him, this current team does not have that yet.

 

[GVC]

I think they are trying to do it right this time. I think the last team was assembled to make the playoffs and nothing more. Whether it works this time I'll wait to see. I'm not sure this approach is better, I'm optimistic that it is and I for one am still seeing improvement in this team. Eventually, maybe even this year they will need to make a move. I'm just don't believe that the pessimism you and Shad feel is fair or warranted yet.
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THIS WAS A PLAYOFF TEAM WITHOUT THE INJURIES. That is the part I don't get. Maybe the west was weaker this year, or maybe the top 4 teams were just so good the rest had to lose more. Maybe the bottom (like the Jazz) were stronger so the middle had to lose more. It's a little disingenuous to just assume the west was weaker because the middle didn't win 50 games, a lot goes into that. But despite all of that this team was in the playoff race up to the last week of the season. I said before the season that, that was what I expected. The Jazz exceeded my expectations this year because they did what I expected despite the staggering # of injuries they suffered.
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KOC had and spent a ton of money bringing in Okur and Boozer. It kept the team in the playoffs, that was the goal. If that was the goal now I think they would have employed the same approach. Because they haven't I have to believe that they are trying to do it right this time. If that were the goal they would have tried to keep Millsap.

What does 'doing it right' even mean? It's amazing how little you've said...this reads as nothing more than blind faith/wishful thinking. What is DL doing better than KOC? How is it more likely to get the Jazz a championship?

Safe to assume you're backing off the assertion that KOC had more to work with? Any chance you'll answer a single question I've asked?

 

[GVC]

4 out of 6 years? Wow what an accomplishment. The conference finals was a fluke and they got blown out because of it. They got beat down soundly every time they played a real contender in the playoffs. He did that with a lot of experienced pieces around him, this current team does not have that yet.

Because DL is too busy doing nothing and bleeding assets...

KOC got **** done, tried to add talent when possible, and still ended up lucking into a better draft prospect than DL. Tank or take advantage of the loads of cap space and young players to add talent through trades and free agency: Those are DL's options. Doing nothing and hoping it works is bound to fail.

 

[gregbroncs]

What does 'doing it right' even mean? It's amazing how little you've said...this reads as nothing more than blind faith/wishful thinking. What is DL doing better than KOC? How is it more likely to get the Jazz a championship?

Safe to assume you're backing off the assertion that KOC had more to work with? Any chance you'll answer a single question I've asked?

Trying to win it all without ruining your chance by over paying one dimensional players like Boozer and Okur.

I guess it is blind faith. Your saying more than I am? All you've really done is bitch about the direction they are going. And showing your utter lack of faith in anything they've done. They are taking the approach of building from within instead of throwing money at over priced FA's that may or may not fit together. Last time they did the opposite, they threw money at Boozer, AK and Okur and hoped they would work, that team was seriously flawed.
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I see potential in this team, and because they are trying to build this way it takes more time than last time. They could easily scrap the whole thing and try the same approach as last time. Just let Hayward, Favors, and Burks expire and throw money at whomever the better FA's at the time are. I think our real difference is you don't see potential in this team and I do. Call it blind faith, or disagree. Whatever you feel like, but I still like the direction of this team. I like the potential of this team. I am willing to be more patient than you are. I don't even really give a **** what the franchise is saying, I see potential on this roster. So I have faith in the direction they are going.

 

[gregbroncs]

Because DL is too busy doing nothing and bleeding assets...

KOC got **** done, tried to add talent when possible, and still ended up lucking into a better draft prospect than DL. Tank or take advantage of the loads of cap space and young players to add talent through trades and free agency: Those are DL's options. Doing nothing and hoping it works is bound to fail.

They don't have it because their players are too young to have that experience.

 

[GVC]

Trying to win it all without ruining your chance by over paying one dimensional players like Boozer and Okur.

I guess it is blind faith. Your saying more than I am? All you've really done is bitch about the direction they are going. And showing your utter lack of faith in anything they've done. They are taking the approach of building from within instead of throwing money at over priced FA's that may or may not fit together. Last time they did the opposite, they threw money at Boozer, AK and Okur and hoped they would work, that team was seriously flawed.
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I see potential in this team, and because they are trying to build this way it takes more time than last time. They could easily scrap the whole thing and try the same approach as last time. Just let Hayward, Favors, and Burks expire and throw money at whomever the better FA's at the time are. I think our real difference is you don't see potential in this team and I do. Call it blind faith, or disagree. Whatever you feel like, but I still like the direction of this team. I like the potential of this team. I am willing to be more patient than you are. I don't even really give a **** what the franchise is saying, I see potential on this roster. So I have faith in the direction they are going.

Those teams also collected draft picks, and re-signed their young players. It's not either-or. You can develop players AND acquire players through trades and free agency. Do you really think a couple extra mid-1sts is going to turn this team into a contender?

 

[GVC]

They don't have it because their players are too young to have that experience.

Uh...Favors and Hayward have more experience (6 seasons each) than either Boozer or Okur when KOC signed them (2 seasons each). The top players on those Jazz teams had LESS NBA experience when they first made the playoffs than the top players on the current team.