Hill and Hayward: The Package Deal

[DasJazz]

whats the point of winning 60 plus games when you can t compete to get out of round 2?
and lets be honest here had the Clippers been healthy they would of won in 6 games max.
Also doesn't matter what the Jazz do on the court, they are never going be a free agent destination. The league is mostly black and lets be honest with ourselves, not many nba players want to live in Utah. This has been discussed so many times I dotn know why people stil lthink Utah can get a big name free agent. Biggest name free agent singing the Jazz have ever had is Boozer and how good was Boozer? He was decent but he was soft and played matador defense. For the Jazz to compete in the NBA they need to draft players and sign players with local ties who don't mind living with amongst all the Mormons. Go Ahead and hate on my post all you want but its 100 percent truth#RealTalk

If the Jazz were healthy we would've won in 5 games max, so there's always two sides to the coin you're trying to flip.

 

[enchilada_style]

whats the point of winning 60 plus games when you can t compete to get out of round 2?
and lets be honest here had the Clippers been healthy they would of won in 6 games max.
Also doesn't matter what the Jazz do on the court, they are never going be a free agent destination. The league is mostly black and lets be honest with ourselves, not many nba players want to live in Utah. This has been discussed so many times I dotn know why people stil lthink Utah can get a big name free agent. Biggest name free agent singing the Jazz have ever had is Boozer and how good was Boozer? He was decent but he was soft and played matador defense. For the Jazz to compete in the NBA they need to draft players and sign players with local ties who don't mind living with amongst all the Mormons. Go Ahead and hate on my post all you want but its 100 percent truth#RealTalk

Yikes.

 

[Diamond77]

It would be a huge mistake if the Jazz overpay to keep Hill and Ingles and guarantees Diaw's contract.

You don't want championships with this type of mentality.

 

[Ron Mexico]

He just isnt going to re-sign with us, no matter what. Quin has shown very little willingness to roll with Gobert/Favors, even two years ago when Favors was good and healthy, he would still take Gobert/Booker or Favors/Booker over Gobert/Favors most of the time.

He has said how much he likes it here and likes stability. I think he would re-sign with us and would probably take a discount again like his last contract to stay and have stability.

Quin did not play those two together much this year but that was more due to injuries and the minute limitation of Favors. It made more sense when Favors is getting little minutes to stagger him. This could be solved by having a healthy Favors (I am 50/50 if this will happen) and/or getting a better back up center that Snyder trusts and likes. Withey is not cutting it at least for Snyder.

Last year when Healthy Gobert and Favors played together 882 minutes that season. Even though he staggered them at times he played them together plenty. More than any other combo. The next player Gobert played the most with from the PF spot was Booker at 500 minutes. The next big that Favors played the most with was also Booker at 556 minutes. Clearly Gobert and Favors played more together than with Booker.

If Favors is healthy again next year he wont be just a back up to Gobert. He will be staggered a bit and they will play together a bit. Staggering them is a good idea. Assuming it isnt a bad matchup they will close out games together. The year before this season Gobert got pulled a lot at the end due to FT shooting but that isnt an issue as much anymore.

Also if Favors adds a 3 point shot they will play Gobert and Favors together a lot more.

 

[Ron Mexico]

It would be a huge mistake if the Jazz overpay to keep Hill and Ingles and guarantees Diaw's contract.

You don't want championships with this type of mentality.

Why?

Unless you can get something better you keep the talent you have. They can all be trade chips in the future to build something better. You dont let good talent just walk away for nothing that does not bring championships. We need players like Hill and Inlges to be good enough to attract talent and to have trade chips if we have someone we can get. I cant think of other championship teams that let good solid talent walk away for nothing. For example San Antonio traded Hill for the right piece at the right time. They didnt just let him leave.

 

[Diamond77]

Why?

Unless you can get something better you keep the talent you have. They can all be trade chips in the future to build something better. You dont let good talent just walk away for nothing that does not bring championships. We need players like Hill and Inlges to be good enough to attract talent and to have trade chips if we have someone we can get. I cant think of other championship teams that let good solid talent walk away for nothing. For example San Antonio traded Hill for the right piece at the right time. They didnt just let him leave.

The so called "talents" are Hood, Exum, Burks and Favors. I still have faith in them.

Hill is already 31 and Ingles going for 30. I don't want the Jazz to overpay them with long contracts.

 

[Ron Mexico]

The so called "talents" are Hood, Exum, Burks and Favors. I still have

Hill is already 31 and Ingles going for 30. I don't want the Jazz to overpay them with long contracts.

Because they wont help us win or they will be untradeable? Or because they will prevent us from signing someone else?

 

[Diamond77]

Because they wont help us win or they will be untradeable? Or because they will prevent us from signing someone else?

They could be untradeable and I would like the Jazz to explore the free agency.

 

[FalseFlagg K]

We're a 60+ win team next year with no changes. I'd stick with that and then sort things out in the summer of 2018. Breaking 60 wins and a good playoff showing puts us in another realm that opens doors for bringing in other key people, regardless of whether or not we lose some people.

Regarding Snyder not being open to a Gobert/Favors combo, I think the jury is out on that. They played together enough after Kanter was traded and we went on that run. The next year both of them missed 20 games each. This year Favors was never healthy. And we don't have a legitimate backup center that can play minutes so a hobbled Favors got penciled in there. Next season they play together which I believe is what makes us unique.

agree with this .. Derrick being able to hit his midrange shot while playing center for Rudy in foul trouble won us a game. I think the spacing is an issue but not insurmountable. The thing is if the offence gets a little constipated sometimes who gives a rats if we're suffocating teams defensively ? Surly the NET rating is the most important thing ?? Along with if he's healthy enough to play backup center. I'd be stunned if we gave up on Derrick at this stage.

 

[royzzz]

I'm not convinced that we have to sign Hill for Hayward to stay. After all, there is no place else Gordon would end up where Hill goes with him. I think Hill is playing that card a lot stronger than Gordon. I am sure Gordon would like to have George back but more than that he wants to see we are serious about winning. If we add another piece to the puzzle and it isn't George I think Gordon will be fine with that.

That George can be Paul George

 

[royzzz]

I just like he conceit here that everyone on this board thinks that they have a better handle on the salary cap situation than Gordon Hayward. If signing Hill to four years 25 million hurts the team, Hayward knows that more than anyone. If that type of money loses us Jingles and Favors, why would you think that Hayward is stupid enough to go along with it?

For the record, I think Hill can get 4 years OR 25 million, not both. There are only 8 or nine teams that could offer him that, and he isn't 8th or 9th on the priority list. Unfortunately, one of those teams is the Spurs, which is the only real situation that Hill can shine like he does here.

How scary it would be if instead of Hill, Spurs signs Gordon!
Assuming he takes a lower salary but better chances of winning an championship.
Hayward-Leonard now they just have to ship Pau and Parker.

 

[royzzz]

Good post. I don't think it's safe to assume that they're a package deal. I believe Hayward would likely re-sign if we were able to pull off a significant acquisition or the FO's as able to sell him on the promise of eventually landing that missing 3rd piece.

Replacing Hill with a solid stop-gap PG such as Mills/Collison/etc (depending on the financial commitment it would take) while retaining the majority of this year's roster (assuming a significant trade doesn't materialize) shouldn't cause much of a drop-off (if any, considering internal development/incoming rookies/potential additional FA signings/etc) in the teams ability to compete & would help retain long-term flexibility.

Hill missing significant time, Gobert establishing himself as an elite player, & witnessing first hand that the current roster isn't ready to truly compete with GSW are all factors that could convince Hayward to return regardless of how the Hill situation plays out.

Agree on this.
A solid stop-gap PG PLUS get somebody who can defend wings, get rebounds and consistently hit outside shots.
With GSW series the Jazz were closing on them but could never get over the hump.
Part of it is experience and not playing the full 48mins.
But also other than Hayward nobody is helping out Gobert get rebounds.