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Favors takes down all Jazz related stuff from his twitter

Favors is a little bit of an odd bird too. I could totally see him simply having some fun at our expense too.
 
Cappy_Smurf said:
First off, NOBODY knows what kind of contract Favors will get. Completely depends on how healthy he stays next season.

Second, the series against GS means squat. The Cavs weren't anywhere close to beating that team with the best player in the world.

Again, if you want to use the Favors didn't play against GS....the whole dumbass argument is that he doesn't fit and Lyles fits better next to Rudy...

Zero games in the playoffs show Utah is better off without Favors.

The clippers series shows Utah is a lot better with Favors playing well, and nothing, I say nothing shows that Utah plays better with Lyles giving better spacing.
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Nobody mentioned Lyles. I'm simply saying that Favors doesn't fit next to Gobert because:

- he can't spread the floor
- he's not athletic enough to guard the small lineups
- he isn't a great passer
- he doesn't dominate offensively enough to counter these other weaknesses.

This has nothing to do with Lyles.

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stitches said:
There are legit reasons to trade Favors. Him not fitting next to Gobert is NOT one of them. Numbers show otherwise. 3 years running Gobert+Favors has better net rating than either of them alone. This has to be the most failed yet persistent narrative about our team in recent years.
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Net rating in the season means jack ****. Favors had a couple good playoff games. He impressed me. However, he is not a force in any area of the game. Next summer, it will be determined that he's either worth $20 a year OR he is too injury prone to be worth the investment. Either way, we shouldnt need to be making that assessment. We dont need a $20 million PF who isn't a stretch 4 or an injury prone big.

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LoPo said:
Net rating in the season means jack ****. Favors had a couple good playoff games. He impressed me. However, he is not a force in any area of the game. Next summer, it will be determined that he's either worth $20 a year OR he is too injury prone to be worth the investment. Either way, we shouldnt need to be making that assessment. We dont need a $20 million PF who isn't a stretch 4 or an injury prone big.

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uh .. net rating is EVERYTHING ....
 
stitches said:
There are legit reasons to trade Favors. Him not fitting next to Gobert is NOT one of them. Numbers show otherwise. 3 years running Gobert+Favors has better net rating than either of them alone. This has to be the most failed yet persistent narrative about our team in recent years.
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One big problem though.

Gobert has become the center point of the offense as the primary roll man instead of Favors. We really don't know if they can fit together with this new power dynamic.

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Saint Cy of JFC said:
One big problem though.

Gobert has become the center point of the offense as the primary roll man instead of Favors. We really don't know if they can fit together with this new power dynamic.

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With Gobert being this force and Favors being severely limited, they still had +11 net rating playing together this year. The value of Gobert+Favors comes from the defense, not from the offense. It doesn't matter if Favors or Gobert takes the pnr opportunities. I don't care really. They will figure it out. If it means Gobert's stats fall down by 2ppg and 1rpg and we still keep the team performing at this level with them on the floor, it doesn't matter to me what they do individually offensively. If it means Favors becoming a 12/8 player(severely dropping his offensive production, because for example Rudy is better finishing in the PnR), again - I don't care. IT DOESN'T MATTER. If they make it work(which they are doing and were doing better than ever this year), it doesn't matter how they allocate offensive possessions. If you post defensive rating in the mid-90s, even average offense guarantees your net ratings of ~+10, which as a whole is only beaten by the Warriors in the current NBA...
 
LoPo said:
Please explain more so I get what you are saying.

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Net rating is the best known statistical predictor for wins. The higher your net rating is the more wins you will get. There are some aberrations(for example, last year the Jazz had a net rating corresponding to 46 wins team, but they only won 40 - this was an outlier mainly due to extremely poor clutch performance, which we've corrected this year). No other stat correlates better with wins than net rating, not assist%, not turnovers, not shooting %, nothing.

Net rating is currently king when it comes to predicting wins. That's main part of 538s prediction model and other models for example.
 
stitches said:
With Gobert being this force and Favors being severely limited, they still had +11 net rating playing together this year. The value of Gobert+Favors comes from the defense, not from the offense. It doesn't matter if Favors or Gobert takes the pnr opportunities. I don't care really. They will figure it out. If it means Gobert's stats fall down by 2ppg and 1rpg and we still keep the team performing at this level with them on the floor, it doesn't matter to me what they do individually offensively. If it means Favors becoming a 12/8 player(severely dropping his offensive production, because for example Rudy is better finishing in the PnR), again - I don't care. IT DOESN'T MATTER. If they make it work(which they are doing and were doing better than ever this year). If you post defensive rating in the mid-90s, even average offense guarantees your net ratings of ~+10, which as a whole is only beaten by the Warriors in the current NBA...
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Just because they have a positive net rating doesn't make it an optimal pairing.

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Saint Cy of JFC said:
The Favors/Gobert believers can hang their hat on net rating all day, but its clear Quin does not believe in it.

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I absolutely agree with this - Quin doesn't trust it. I think we have enough evidence to conclude that - last year he was benching Gobert, this year he was benching Favors. And I have no idea why. He must have the stats. He lost a ton of games last year because he was benching Gobert or Favors in the clutch in favor of Trevor freaking Booker. And our D-rating was dropping to 125 or whatever it was in the clutch. This is not rational approach IMO.

Locke has this opinion that what coaches hate the most is the feeling that their team can't score and that pushes their decision the most in key moments. I think I believe him when it comes to Quin. He definitely prefers having the floor stretched to having a monster defensive unit. And we lost games for it and we keep losing games for it.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Just because they have a positive net rating doesn't make it an optimal pairing.

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Well, what would be the optimal pairing? You need a stretchy big who can play defense at least at the level of Favors. Prime Ibaka? Millsap? I guess I would agree, but I definitely wouldn't throw out this pairing for players that are severely lacking skill and/or defensive ability. Quality always beats fit IMO, unless the quality is very close.
 
stitches said:
Net rating is the best known statistical predictor for wins. The higher your net rating is the more wins you will get. There are some aberrations(for example, last year the Jazz had a net rating corresponding to 46 wins team, but they only won 40 - this was an outlier mainly due to extremely poor clutch performance, which we've corrected this year). No other stat correlates better with wins than net rating, not assist%, not turnovers, not shooting %, nothing.

Net rating is currently king when it comes to predicting wins. That's main part of 538s prediction model and other models for example.
Click to expand...



You lost me with 538...

Do you know they gave the Cavs an 11% chance to get out of the East prior to the playoffs? LMFAO
 
stitches said:
Well, what would be the optimal pairing? You need a stretchy big who can play defense at least at the level of Favors. Prime Ibaka? Millsap? I guess I would agree, but I definitely wouldn't throw out this pairing for players that are severely lacking skill and/or defensive ability. Quality always beats fit IMO, unless the quality is very close.
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Probably Patrick Patterson, as far as realistic pairings. He could be had for MLE?

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Et tu Brute said:
You lost me with 538...

Do you know they gave the Cavs an 11% chance to get out of the East prior to the playoffs? LMFAO
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That's based on their numbers. Would you agree that the Cavs and LeBron specifically doesn't particularly care for the regular season? If LeBron played at the same level in the regular season both their win/loss record and net rating would be much better in the regular season. He just doesn't care and the performance of his team is not representative of the real quality of the team. This is not true for huge majority of teams.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Probably Patrick Patterson, as far as realistic pairings. He could be had for MLE?

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Patrick Patterson IMO is not good enough to replace the value Favors gives this team. That's why the Raptors went for Ibaka to replace him when they could. Patterson's a better fit for us, but he's not a better player than Favors(not even close) and wouldn't give us better results IMO.

In RealGM's mock off-season I got him for the MLE, but I think in real life he will probably get better offers.
 
Et tu Brute said:
This is clearly true.

I thought Favors did a lot of his best work in that series at the 5 (didn't he?).
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So, IF the Jazz trade favors do they need to find a replacement starting pf and replacement back-up center?

That seems like a difficult task. I hear the reasons for trading Favors, I get it, but boy does Lindsey have a task to fill in those voids.
 
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