green
Well-Known Member
I have no problem with the money they made pre-Church employment.
My problem is the salaries and benefits that puts "servants" in the top 1% of income in the US.
12 year old gay Mormon at church
- Thread starter Keefe
- Start date
I have no problem with the money they made pre-Church employment.
My problem is the salaries and benefits that puts "servants" in the top 1% of income in the US.
green
Well-Known Member
Interesting. Do I believe it is a commandment from God? Yes, yes I do. NOW, just like the priesthood ban was nothing more than old man racism, I do not believe that what is taught in this church today is from God.
Once again, old men have twisted a commandment from god to satiate their own desires.
Show me where in the scriptures does the Lord say tithing is 10% of income. Show me where in the scriptures God says that tithing is to be paid before all else.
Tithing was never a flat tax. It was always a progressive tax...until the Church was on the verge on bankruptcy. So, they closed the books, increased the fees to heaven and called it good.
Is tithing a law of God? Yup. Do I pay tithing? Yup. Is the LDS Church's tithing from God? It is as inspired as polygamy, ban on priesthood, banning women from talking/praying in sacrament meetings, the not wanting women to wear shorts, the silly idea that women in the workplace leads to adultery, and so on.
If I have to choose between a law that is so obviously wrong, that goes against scripture or following a prophet who others in his position have been wrong time and time and time again...I'll stick to the scripture.
Huh. "interest". "standing law...forever". "saith the Lord".
Ok.
green
Well-Known Member
Here is another example of what drives me crazy about the deceit in the Church:
The Church has used this story about Derek Carr, who is not mormon, to guilt members into paying tithing. And they have done it in a way that leads to you BELIEVE that he IS MORMON and that he is paying his 10%. We have no idea about any of that.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...rterback-Derek-Carr-donates-plans-to-pay.html
If LDS version of tithing is so inspired from God, why all the deceit?
The Church has used this story about Derek Carr, who is not mormon, to guilt members into paying tithing. And they have done it in a way that leads to you BELIEVE that he IS MORMON and that he is paying his 10%. We have no idea about any of that.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...rterback-Derek-Carr-donates-plans-to-pay.html
If LDS version of tithing is so inspired from God, why all the deceit?
[MENTION=228]green[/MENTION] if you believe and I quote "...I do not believe that what is taught in this church today is from God.", why are you attending that church?
If you do not believe it is from God than you would not be uplifted and brought closer to Him. Seems like a complete waste of your time. I just don't get it.
As for me I am Church friendly but do not participate in any way. Because I disagree with the whole image of God as presented by the LDS church.
If you do not believe it is from God than you would not be uplifted and brought closer to Him. Seems like a complete waste of your time. I just don't get it.
As for me I am Church friendly but do not participate in any way. Because I disagree with the whole image of God as presented by the LDS church.
fishonjazz
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Green seems to have a lot of hate in his heart. On most everything discussed on jazzfanz.
Maybe leave the church if you have this much hate bro. Probably be better off.
Maybe leave the church if you have this much hate bro. Probably be better off.
You do realize that's not an official Church publication, right?
I guess it depends on what you view as "scripture", but it took me about 2 seconds to find this:
D&C 119
4 And after that, those who have thus been tithed shall pay one-tenth of all their interest annually; and this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my holy priesthood, saith the Lord.
Now, it's been awhile since I had elementary level math, but I do seem to remember that one-tenth is the same as 10%.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that kind of say that if you have the priesthood then you need to tithe? It sounds like tithing is the cost of the priesthood to me.
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
You're wrong. LDS believe tithing is a commandment. But even at that i could stop paying tithing all together tomorrow and keep the priesthood.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
I have read a first hand account(Diary) that says that Joseph Smith gave a speach about polygamy. I have posted it before. I'll have to dig it up sometime.
Even if I don't get around to it the church made public the same thing just a couple years ago.
I'm not sure how you could be a Mormon and not believe that polygamy was inspired by God at least for a Time.
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
One of the great things about being a Mormon is that you can believe whatever you want and still participate. Being a mormon is more about action than belief. And even there they are pretty forgiving for the most part.
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
So what is DC 119 saying then? "this shall be a standing law unto them forever, for my priesthood, saith the lord."
Just curious how you would interpret that
♪alt13
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I didn't think that they would kick you out for not believing that polygamy was ever inspired by god. I just mean that how could you believe in J.S. as God's prophet but think that he made the polygamy thing up. Wouldn't that be quite harmful to his credibility? Wouldn't it call into question the validity of his other revelations?
seattlejazzfan
Well-Known Member
Here's the deal- and i know I'm unique among Mormons in this respect- at this point in my life i couldn't give two craps if JS was making it all up (i don't believe he was fwiw), the church, Mormonism, makes me a better person, makes my family happy, inspires us to be kinder and more service oriented. As long as that is the case, the rest is just irrelevant fluff.
Sent from my LG-K540 using Tapatalk
I think I can speak to the current round of free quasi-acceptable Mormon thought and LDS official policy.
Early on.... 1830s to Nauvoo times, LDS were quite "communal" in a lot of ways we aren't today. Everybody pitched in to build stuff or develop townsites. There were some abuses of "centralized" planning which I think caused Joseph Smith to start moving away from talking so much about the "communitarian" aspects of "Christianity". Even in Missouri days he wrote a scathing "revelation" to the Presiding Bishop to make it clear that people should hold inheritable. legal title to their "stewardships".
There has always been a little ambiguity about what is the basis of the tithing calculation. In D&C 119 it was after making a consecration of "extra" assets to the Church and receiving a "stewardship", that "tithing" was to be paid on the increase of the "stewardship". This would not mean necessarily that tithes would be paid on gross income, this was an agrarian community where "income" was figured on the basis of crop yield. I don't think we have any indication on how tithes would work, say, for a shoemaker. An LDS businessman today I am sure will deduct expenses and not tithe total sales just profit.
The Church has expected ordinary workers to tithe gross income I think, generally, but anyone doing their taxes will deduct some job-related expenses.....
I've heard of people who tithe inflationary gains on real estate, though the house or building did not "increase" at all,. . . . . not sure how generally this concept is actually followed.....
With Lorenzo Snow and the Dixie drought I think people started feeling called upon to pay their tithing more on gross production/income because they were promised that the "Windows of Heaven" would be opened....
I rather think this is Truth. If you don't want blessings, liberally or abundantly poured out on you, just don't follow that attitude and you'll get by more on your own merits....
And, yeah, I could tell you about some women in the workplace, focused on careers or other stuff more than their families, find it a convenient place to pick up some extra action. Nothing so silly as thinking that does not happen.
Bruce R. McConkie wrote in a private letter on the subject of scripture vs. leadership emphasis, saying that "although" the Church teaches following the Prophet without question, the "reason" the brethren must say that is just because people today don't generally understand the scriptures very well. Of course, if you understand the scriptures, you won't be looking for "reasons" to justify your inconsistent behaviors.... Hence, the scriptures do prevail, and the LDS authorities don't mind if you follow the scriptures, for what they actually mean.
Cappy_Smurf
Well-Known Member
Mormons have more than one Sunday now?
Man and I thought I was being robbed by having to miss ONE day of fishing.
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
The LDS doctrine on tithing is, IMHO, a form of spiritual blackmail. It plays on feelings of guilt, false promises of reward, both heavenly and temporal, and threats of punishment extract money from people many who can't afford it. While Colton's experience worked out, he also had a social/familial network that would support him financially and otherwise if need be. Many don't have this and paying tithing literally becomes matter of food, rent, basic leisure, basic quality of life vs paying tithing. But even for them, thy are spiritually blackmailed into paying the full 10%. Meanwhile the wealthy pay via stock or other donations. My financially struggling brother has paid tens of thousands in tithing over the years but has no money set aside for retirement. Anyone here think paying all that tithing will compensate him for having nothing to live on in his old age?
well this thread has certainly meandered
Dude, retirement only lasts 20-40 years if you're lucky. Eternity is like, I don't know, a lot longer than that.
To be fair, I'm guessing every one of these paid clergy have paid for there own mission and have given countless hours serving for free as bishops, stake presidents, etc. that can be extremely taxing on themselves and their families, and have most likely given plenty to charitable church causes. It's not like the church goes out and grabs some random member and says "hey, want to be a 70 or 12 member?". These people have long years of pedigree in unpaid church service.