Time for a true gutting of the team this offseason.

[Handlogten's Heros]

Royce is PJ Tucker... Royce a little better shooter and better off the bounce. PJ is probably a lot better on defense (in part because he is allowed to use MMA tactics). The numbers are fairly similar... just play him at the 4 Crowder off the bench... get some guard/perimeter help. Maybe Dante stops being ded and becomes good, maybe grayson gets good, maybe our draft pick this year becomes something.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Yep.

My frustration stems with falling in love with what was an obviously flawed roster that got hot and deciding to do nothing of substance. Re-upping a guy that had really nothing to do with that success makes the off-season that much more frustrating.

Yeah Dante's caphold kinda screwed any potential cap space we had last year and without his contract this offseason we'd be even more flexible. I love Favs, he's a valuable contributor... I just wonder if he is back he is a crutch that may raise the floor of the team but limit the potential ceiling.

If he was the hangup in the Conley deal that is crazy to me still... I don't believe he was, but some of the reporting seems to indicate otherwise.

 

[candrew]

I agree... the fact we have to pay guys isn’t a reason to be conservative. The nba has proven no contract is untradeable. If we got in a bind financially we could wiggle out.

Scared money don’t make none... doesn’t mean we have to get dumb... but an overpay for a good addition is fine.

My fear is Locke's statement is a true reflection of The Jazz FO mentality. Once you peel through the layers of Steve Starks sound bytes and PR nonsense, the true Jazz business model is to maintain a level of competitiveness while practicing an ultra conservative approach to payroll and personnel while hoping a first round upset here and there and the occasional trip deep into the playoffs every ten years or so is enough to tide the fan base over.

 

[SoUjazzfan]

^^^
I'm afraid this is exactly the mindset. From a business standpoint it makes the most sense. I feel like Larry had a real desire to try and bring a championship here after he became financially set, but that hasn't been the feeling since he passed.

 

[LoPo]

Yeah Dante's caphold kinda screwed any potential cap space we had last year and without his contract this offseason we'd be even more flexible. I love Favs, he's a valuable contributor... I just wonder if he is back he is a crutch that may raise the floor of the team but limit the potential ceiling.

Exum's cap hold didn't hurt us at all last summer because we had already committed the money to Favors and Thabo. Had we renounced those two, then yes, Exum's cap hold would have restricted us. We signed Exum with money over the cap since we had his rights. Whether we re-signed Exum or not, we would have had to use some sort of exception to add anybody else last summer.

I'm perfectly fine with people being upset with the draft pick used on Dante or the fact he has been hurt. But through his 5 years with our franchise, his salary amount has not been a roadblock for other dreams. It will definitely hurt us next year if he doesn't play well or just gets hurt again.

 

[SCS]

So Lou Williams?

I suggested that at the deadline. Lou Will would be perfect on this roster.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Exum's cap hold didn't hurt us at all last summer because we had already committed the money to Favors and Thabo. Had we renounced those two, then yes, Exum's cap hold would have restricted us. We signed Exum with money over the cap since we had his rights. Whether we re-signed Exum or not, we would have had to use some sort of exception to add anybody else last summer.

I'm perfectly fine with people being upset with the draft pick used on Dante or the fact he has been hurt. But through his 5 years with our franchise, his salary amount has not been a roadblock for other dreams. It will definitely hurt us next year if he doesn't play well or just gets hurt again.

Bruh... if you are planning to waive his cap hold then you waive the other guys. If he wasn’t in our future plans we could have easily had some dough to play with... may have been able to come back to Favs if we struck out... prolly not but I’d love to know what his market was.

We could kick tires get a taker then waive the other guys and capholds... we didn’t really even kick any other tires.

 

[LoPo]

I feel that the following roster could do more damage than the current roster:

Starters - Donovan, Redick, Ingles, Royce, Gobert
Primary Bench - Exum, Crowder, Korver, Bench Big (Favors, Bjelica, Aminu, Ilaysova, etc.)
Deep Bench - Neto, Bradley, Grayson, draft pick

 

[LoPo]

Bruh... if you are planning to waive his cap hold then you waive the other guys. If he wasn’t in our future plans we could have easily had some dough to play with... may have been able to come back to Favs if we struck out... prolly not but I’d love to know what his market was.

We could kick tires get a taker then waive the other guys and capholds... we didn’t really even kick any other tires.

But Exum's caphold was irrelevant because we prioritized Favors first. We put all the eggs into the Favors basket. Once we did that, we were capped out. Internally, we could keep Thabo, Exum, Udoh, Jerekbo, Neto and Stockton. Externally, we had the ability to add someone via an exception. We decided to keep 4 of the 6 internal guys and let Jerekbo and Stockton walk. Then we signed Niang to a minimum deal.

Unless we did some illegal communication (PG, etc.), we went right to Favors when the clock struck midnight when communication could legally begin. Exum's caphold was irrelevant. We didn't try to use our potential space anywhere else. It was all Favors.

 

[Spinoza]

Here's a start. Get 2 point guards that will play 70+ games a year at least. If we can trade Exum, that'd be great too.

Sign someone at the 4 or trade Favors for a stretch 4.

Hope that Gobert learns 1 offensive move in his entire career.

Ingles has REALLY fallen off since the start of the season which is concerning.

Basically, anyone should be free game except Donovan or Gobert. That's including Ingles.

I agree with the general gist. I've already checked out of the rest of this season. It's clear this team isn't going anywhere.

With that said, it was absolutely the right choice to not trade for Conley. We don't need 30 mil+ a year for a guy who is going to take the ball out of Mitchell's hands even more than Rubio. You build around Mitchell, Gobert, and Favors. Those are the only three that have proven themselves to be are able to consistently contribute. Crowder, O'Neale, and Korver are great role players, keep them around. Other than that, the rest of the roster needs a massive upgrade.

 

[416Klawzz]

Here's a start. Get 2 point guards that will play 70+ games a year at least. If we can trade Exum, that'd be great too.

Sign someone at the 4 or trade Favors for a stretch 4.

Hope that Gobert learns 1 offensive move in his entire career.

Ingles has REALLY fallen off since the start of the season which is concerning.

Basically, anyone should be free game except Donovan or Gobert. That's including Ingles.

Kinda harsh and challenging because we are Utah ...

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

But Exum's caphold was irrelevant because we prioritized Favors first. We put all the eggs into the Favors basket. Once we did that, we were capped out. Internally, we could keep Thabo, Exum, Udoh, Jerekbo, Neto and Stockton. Externally, we had the ability to add someone via an exception. We decided to keep 4 of the 6 internal guys and let Jerekbo and Stockton walk. Then we signed Niang to a minimum deal.

Unless we did some illegal communication (PG, etc.), we went right to Favors when the clock struck midnight when communication could legally begin. Exum's caphold was irrelevant. We didn't try to use our potential space anywhere else. It was all Favors.

Yes but part of the reason we operated that way was because we wanted to retain Exum... we planned on matching anything which means keeping the caphold.

If we had been willing to risk losing them then maybe you can get in some conversations. If you are willing to risk those guys you could talk with other free agents... get a commitment then waive those guys... if they get poached in the meantime oh well. His caphold along with those items were the issues... but we could have cut all of Udoh, Thabo, and Jonas... and left the holds on the book while we discussed FA.

Favs didn’t sign at midnight... no illegal nonsense needed... we could have talked with other dudes but Exum/Favs were prioritized. Their capholds/presence meant we didn’t have space but we coulda cleared it.