Jussie Smollet

[Stoked]

The definition I was stating has been standard in these discussions for decades. It is the second definition at Merriam-Webster:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
2a: a doctrine or political program based on the assumption of racism and designed to execute its principles
b: a political or social system founded on racism



The problem is, much like wildfires, racially distinct outcomes occur when there is no one trying to set a metaphorical fire. So, we still need a term for racially differentiated treatment from institutional policy that occurs without racially discriminatory intentions, the lexicographical equivalent of 'wildfire' in your metaphor.

Even your definitions make the point clear. It’s based on racism. Not it IS racism.

I’m open to new terminology. And I’m not arguing the massive impact power has on racism. I fully acknowledge it.

 

[Stoked]

Looks like Trump is once again pretty worried about what a black person is up to. He's using the power of the Presidency to direct the FBI and DOJ to look into the Smollet matter. Can't be letting "those people" make a mockery of our justice system.

I just shook my head. There are better things for him to focus on. Ugh, trump really? He’s the best we could come up with?

 

[One Brow]

Even your definitions make the point clear. It’s based on racism. Not it IS racism.

Yes, one of the definitions for racism is institutions that were founded in racism ala definition 1. The existence and continuation of such institutions is racism. Like the US government, which has been based on racism in it's entire existence.

Racism does not require intent on the individual to keep going. We do it without thinking, all the time.

 

[moevillini]

my own sense is that it's possible the State's Attorney considered that when all was said and done, there was a chance that the ability for him to get a "fair trial" was jeopardized by all the publicity, and by the "trial by media" that took place in the weeks after the incident occurred

 

[JazzGal]

There are people that lie about things happening to them, stories about being kidnapped, assaulted, etc. Lots of time and money is spent, fear and panic spread, and then the police find out the person lied about it all for whatever reason. We usually don't send those people to jail, and rarely make them pay back the money wasted (although perhaps that would be a deterrent for fake reports). It makes sense for him to be treated the way most of these types of cases are typically treated. Media interest shouldn't cause him to be treated more severely. So even though I was appalled when I first heard the decision, my better angels have prevailed. He has suffered in the court of public opinion, and that is a fair result for making such an error of judgment.

Someone said to me this morning that he "got away with it" because now blacks and gay people have all the power. Ugh. I do wish that people could treat this situation as its own issue, instead of it being some sort of commentary on celebrity, race, sexual orientation.

 

[Archie Moses]

There are people that lie about things happening to them, stories about being kidnapped, assaulted, etc. Lots of time and money is spent, fear and panic spread, and then the police find out the person lied about it all for whatever reason. We usually don't send those people to jail, and rarely make them pay back the money wasted (although perhaps that would be a deterrent for fake reports). It makes sense for him to be treated the way most of these types of cases are typically treated. Media interest shouldn't cause him to be treated more severely. So even though I was appalled when I first heard the decision, my better angels have prevailed. He has suffered in the court of public opinion, and that is a fair result for making such an error of judgment.

Someone said to me this morning that he "got away with it" because now blacks and gay people have all the power. Ugh. I do wish that people could treat this situation as its own issue, instead of it being some sort of commentary on celebrity, race, sexual orientation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balloon_boy_hoax

Jail and money.

 

[JazzGal]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balloon_boy_hoax

Jail and money.

Well, sure, there are exceptions. I wonder how these peoples' lives have turned out? Such a weird story.

 

[Hotdog]

Looks like Trump is once again pretty worried about what a black person is up to. He's using the power of the Presidency to direct the FBI and DOJ to look into the Smollet matter. Can't be letting "those people" make a mockery of our justice system.

Did Trump say "those people"

Why does it have to be about race? Why do you lefties live in this fantasy land of every time a black person commits a crime they must be innocent because they are black.

You do know that black people commit crimes too right?

How about judge people based on their character? Is it really that hard?

 

[Gameface]

Did Trump say "those people"

Why does it have to be about race? Why do you lefties live in this fantasy land of every time a black person commits a crime they must be innocent because they are black.

You do know that black people commit crimes too right?

How about judge people based on their character? Is it really that hard?

Yes, Trump judged the Central Park 5 based on their character. Even after they had been exonerated he knew through some sort of extra perception that they had poor character.

 

[Archie Moses]

Wasn't the FBI involved and still looking into mail fraud long before Trump got involved?

 

[LogGrad98]

I've read more about this situation and it's pretty interesting to the point of being fascinating. From what I understand, there's obvious more to the story we're not hearing. Basically, the reason why the charges were dropped because it was so publically known how guilty he was with all the evidence and media coverage that the prosecution thought they couldn't win because of not being able to give him a fair trial. Being too guilty to convict is next level **** imo. Also, I bet the brothers may have changed their story or something with them.

Either way, this is one of the weirdest things to read about since Anthony Weiner weiner / dong pics.

The producers and writers immediately having Smollett's back is interesting too. I mean, they could actually feel he's innocent and has been vindicated, but how many of us would publicly express support for a person like Smollett if they were your coworker? Money sure can help.

Another reason to believe we've been living in an alternate reality since Trump's election.

Do you remember Berenstain or Berenstein?

 

[LogGrad98]

Another myth: crack cocaine laws are racist. The Black Caucus pushed the crack cocaine sentencing laws through and it's majority black communities still pushing to have drug dealers locked up. Get rid of the drug dealers get rid of the drugs.

Attacking supply almost exclusively is a big reason the war on drugs largely didn't/doesn't work.

 

[LogGrad98]

Racism in China applies to the minorities in Chinese society.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_issues_in_China



Black people can absolutely be racist (real life example: Jesse Lee Peterson; fictional example: Uncle Ruckus). Anyone can be the victims of racial prejudice/bigotry, but only non-white people can be victims of racism in the US.

I think you meant only non-whites can be the victim of institutional racism in the US. If I get robbed by someone because of my race, or something, that's a victim of racism. Racism exists in both micro- and macrocosm, as do its victims.

 

[Stoked]

I think you meant only non-whites can be the victim of institutional racism in the US. If I get robbed by someone because of my race, or something, that's a victim of racism. Racism exists in both micro- and macrocosm, as do its victims.

I so absolutely disagree with his ending statement there if that’s how he actually means it.

And yet he and I can always have a fair, respectful even when spirited discussion or debate. For that alone we need more One Brows.

 

[Archie Moses]

Do you remember Berenstain or Berenstein?

The bears?

 

[One Brow]

I think you meant only non-whites can be the victim of institutional racism in the US. If I get robbed by someone because of my race, or something, that's a victim of racism. Racism exists in both micro- and macrocosm, as do its victims.

To avoid confusion, I would refer to you as being the victim of bigotry, but OK.

 

[Gameface]

Wasn't the FBI involved and still looking into mail fraud long before Trump got involved?

So you're saying our President didn't need to waste his valuable Fox and Friends time worrying about things WELL below his office? Yeah, I agree.

 

[Archie Moses]

So you're saying our President didn't need to waste his valuable Fox and Friends time worrying about things WELL below his office? Yeah, I agree.

No, I'm not saying that at all. I absolutely think the president shouldn't be posting about this - It's absurd. I do, however, think,

He's using the power of the Presidency to direct the FBI and DOJ to look into the Smollet matter.

Is misleading. I read long before Trump tweeted the FBI was still involved after the charges were dropped. Saying that doesn't translate to me saying what Trump should do with his time.

 

[One Brow]

I think you meant only non-whites can be the victim of institutional racism in the US. If I get robbed by someone because of my race, or something, that's a victim of racism. Racism exists in both micro- and macrocosm, as do its victims.

Sorry, to respond to the same post twice, but I wanted to add one more wrinkle, which is the racism that occurs with without bigotry.

I recently read an account from a restaurant manage who had hired a black waiter to the mostly-white staff. He noticed that there was a considerably higher rates of complaint made on this waiter, despite the waiter doing their job jest as well. For example, when the waiter was working with the register, patrons would complain he was just standing around. This didn't happen when the white waiters worked at the register.

Now, I'm sure most of these patron would not think of themselves as racists, because they don't hate black people. However, they still treat black people more harshly. I've gone over some of the reasons before why people aren't aware of these biases, and would be happy to do so again if anyone so desires. However, my current point is that when we talk about racism, it can't be just about bigotry, because bigotry doesn't account for a lot of racism. It can't be just about institutional racism, because much of the bigotry-free racism happens at the individual level.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

Sorry, to respond to the same post twice, but I wanted to add one more wrinkle, which is the racism that occurs with without bigotry.

I recently read an account from a restaurant manage who had hired a black waiter to the mostly-white staff. He noticed that there was a considerably higher rates of complaint made on this waiter, despite the waiter doing their job jest as well. For example, when the waiter was working with the register, patrons would complain he was just standing around. This didn't happen when the white waiters worked at the register.

Now, I'm sure most of these patron would not think of themselves as racists, because they don't hate black people. However, they still treat black people more harshly. I've gone over some of the reasons before why people aren't aware of these biases, and would be happy to do so again if anyone so desires. However, my current point is that when we talk about racism, it can't be just about bigotry, because bigotry doesn't account for a lot of racism. It can't be just about institutional racism, because much of the bigotry-free racism happens at the individual level.

I would bet there were actual differences in performance by the waiters. Why would anyone complain that the waiter is standing near the cash register if they didn't need anything from him? More likely they were attempting to pay their bill and this particular waiter was either lazy or bad at math or had a sour attitude or did something else that people felt was worth complaining about.