Privileged by Kyle Korver

[Hotdog]

People make the same ****ing arguments that I have seen responded to a million times on this site! "Oh, all whites are privileged?? How about this guy??". It's been responded to over and over and over.

Some people just don't give a **** I suppose.

Ive never seen those responses. I give a ****. Try me.

 

[One Brow]

Not all the time, and not verbally, this is true.
It does come across many times as condescending and not as a conversation, imo.
To steal from another poster's wording, you appear to listen not to understand but to get to your next point.
This very well could be the case many times with myself or others you converse with at times.
I just have not found this forum to be a safe or useful environment in most instances for this conversation.
It generally devolves quickly into name calling, arguments, and/or posturing.
/opinion

Well, they did set up a safe space for conservatives in the General Discussion forum.

I won't deny aggressively positioning my understanding of the evidence of both social research and my own eyes.

Not all conversation is productive. If you treat illegitimate positions as if they are, in fact, legitimate, you give them status they do not deserve. You can have a decent conversation about the effectiveness of any particular attempt to solve/alleviate a problem like racism (such as whether certain types of housing vouchers are helpful), but there is no decent conversation to be had about the existence of racism. The latter position does not deserve respect.

 

[Hotdog]

The only people who can comfortably proclaim that they have no privilege are the people who have enough privilege to believe that.

Nah, I think its more like the people here who accept they have white privilege are the ones who actually do. Just because you have been spoon fed on a silver platter doesnt mean the rest of us have.

White privilege is earned status. Like Barack Obama or Michael Jackson. You know, two of the most beloved people to walk the planet.

 

[One Brow]

I agree. I would suggest he listen to Larry Elder. You know, an actual Black man. Unlike Kyle, who offers no real solutions other than White people needing to recognize their privilege, Larry talks about actual causes and actual solutions.

Racism exists. White privilege does not.

Now, this is the type of statement that doesn't deserve a decent conversation. White guy finds a black guy who denies reality in the same way he does, ignores the thousands of black men, evidence of social science, etc. that say otherwise, and denies the existence of a phenomenon that has been measured. Basically, a flat-earther of race relations.

 

[JazzyFresh]

People make the same ****ing arguments that I have seen responded to a million times on this site! "Oh, all whites are privileged?? How about this guy??". It's been responded to over and over and over.

Some people just don't give a **** I suppose.

I have privileges because I'm white. Now what? What did that just solve?

Im genuinely asking. I have tons of privileges. My nephew has down syndrome. I live in a country where food and water are plentiful. Other countries kids have to walk miles for a drink of water. Slavery still exist in some of these countries. I have a job and a place to live.

I am extremely privileged. What did that just change? While privileged I still have my own problems, so I find it hard to find the time to save other people. So while I admit I'm privileged according to my skin pigment, I see no solution in that. I dont see how it helps. I think we need to break down these barriers somehow.

I'm one of the nicest dudes I know. While I may get into some stupid name calling on these forums, I treat everyone face to face with respect and genuinely love people no matter their privileges or lack thereof. Personally that's what I can do imo.

 

[Jazz Spazz]

Well, they did set up a safe space for conservatives in the General Discussion forum.

= you saying "shut up"

Not all conversation is productive.

Very true, proven by your response.

The latter position does not deserve respect.

I can vouch for your feeling that many people's positions do not deserve respect.

Thank you for proving that you actually do tell people to shut up.

I'm going to hang up and listen.

 

[One Brow]

Question again on accountability. Does Hip hop, gangster, and rap mentality help to place certain members of races in a more problematic position. I'm saying this because as an boss I don't want my employees listening to rap music. I believe it empowers deviant behavior. Coming from someone who in high school listened to rap. I'm also throwing this out when I was a missionary in Houston we had some Cuban refugees come to the area. They got set up with jobs etc. When they first came they were humble. Then after like 4 months the teenagers were bumping rap dressing like little thugs. They had completely changed.

I think this is why racism has resurfaced because of post 9-11 creating a culture of hate. Rightwing fearmongering you can hear it in rap lyrics with rules and polices. Thoughts?

To my understanding (I don't listen to any of these), there are positive messages in hip-hop/rap music and negative messages, positive messages in country-western music and negative messages, positive messages in death metal music and negative messages. However, you have only mentioned one of these three. I can't tell you why that is, but that's something you need to ask yourself and think about, if you want to be as enlightened as you seem to be trying to be.

As for the Cuban teenagers, it seems to me that people choose music that reflects their inner selves, rather than adjust their inner selves to their music. Whatever the situation that caused them to be refugees in the first place, it probably created a lot of anger or resentment, and they found an echo to that in their music of choice. The real question is did it interfere with their ability to function (go to school, get work, etc.)? If not, why would it be an issue at all?

 

[One Brow]

I won't say "white privilege" doesn't exist but look at the Jussie Smollett thing. He has privilege in the city of Chicago.

Celebrities have privilege. Wealthy people have privilege. Had Smollett been poor and unknown, he'd be facing a trial for that stunt, and going to jail.

It's also pretty sad when someone tries to create racism because the supply doesn't meet the demand. The demand for racism is what really should upset us all.

I'm not sure Smollett cared at all about racism or anti-homosexual bigotry. Seems like he was just trying to get more noticed.

 

[Mission Accomplished]

I think it’s a way of people telling their stories and experiences. Why do they say what they say?

I believe that it has origins of story telling. But, when gangster rap came along it totally romanticizes the thug life. Even in songs that are shinning a light on the problems in their neighborhoods they are speaking from a sunk place. Like the song Gangster Paradise or Changes by 2Pac listen to the lyrics. There are plenty of former rappers and athletes that go to mentor or invest in their communities. But, growing up with rap is one form pushing young kids towards the street life can't be helpful. When I have temps show up to my job that are acting like wannabe gangsters unless they change their attitudes they don't last long.

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[One Brow]

Sorry. I cant do the all or nothing white privilege thing.

Good. Neither is anyone else.

Surely not every white person experiences white privilege, right? I tried to ask One Brow about this before but could never get to the bottom of it. He just danced around the issue.

Did I? Seems like I would answer every white person gets white privilege. That doesn't change that there are other types of privilege (male, straight, cis, tall, wealth, able, deep voice, Christian, early riser, mental calmness, etc.) which not every white person has.

There is nuance, or different levels to this isnt there?

Depending on the situation and the other levels of privilege, sometimes you can get more benefits from your privilege than others.

In what way does this white man have a better life than this black man?

For all we know, if the black man has severe depression and the white man does not, the white man may actually enjoy his life more.

For a more tangible way, if both in the driver's seat of a car, the white guy is less likely to get pulled over for being in the wrong neighborhood.

 

[One Brow]

I’ll agree that the majority of people that say they were the victim of racism were. But the % is an unknown. And it’s ebough to warrant looking at every case by the details

I certainly agree that we should never abandon skepticism.

 

[One Brow]

You cant beat my logic. That's why you wont answer.

I dont even have to use an extreme example. Just an ordinary example.

White guy, no dad. Grew up very poor. In and out of jail. Got addicted to heroin. Overdoses. Has health problems. Dies at 25.

Black guy. Grew up in above average household income status. College paid for. Both parents. Becomes an engineer and has 4 kids. Has a good life. Lives to 89

Does the white guy still have some unfair advantage over the black guy.

Some? Yes. Overall? Probably not.

Or is it just easier to not think about how different things are from one person to the next?

Privilege in one area does not guarantee an easy life, just easier than not having the privilege.

 

[One Brow]

I think we should change the wording from white privilege to structural racism. Built into areas of color or poor areas. Because if you are white in these areas your privilege isn't necessarily going to help you overcome your area. In this case the government has created certain priorities and privileges for minorities and women that disadvantage whites. But, that is why investing in these areas are key with good jobs and good schools. Without those opportunities these communities will continue to struggle.

I agree with much of your post. I will just say that "white privilege" is a descriptive term for the way whites don't feel the oppression under structural racism. I agree that "white privilege" is an insufficient term for discussing structural racism overall, but it is useful for the more limited context.

 

[Mission Accomplished]

To my understanding (I don't listen to any of these), there are positive messages in hip-hop/rap music and negative messages, positive messages in country-western music and negative messages, positive messages in death metal music and negative messages. However, you have only mentioned one of these three. I can't tell you why that is, but that's something you need to ask yourself and think about, if you want to be as enlightened as you seem to be trying to be.

As for the Cuban teenagers, it seems to me that people choose music that reflects their inner selves, rather than adjust their inner selves to their music. Whatever the situation that caused them to be refugees in the first place, it probably created a lot of anger or resentment, and they found an echo to that in their music of choice. The real question is did it interfere with their ability to function (go to school, get work, etc.)? If not, why would it be an issue at all?

I'm confused by what you are saying what types of lifestyles are country and metal promoting? They are hardly talking about making money selling drugs, disrespecting women, shooting others, or trying to be the toughest. Now all rap songs do not include these things. But, a bigger percentage of rap celebrates this verse any other genre of music.

Now I listened to rap for a while in high school. I turned out fine like the majority of people that listen to it. People can call that white privilege but I believe it has more to do with where I live. Because of where I live and opportunities closer to me there was less change of me trying to mimic the lyrics. If you are living in a rougher neighborhood this celebrates poor behavior. More likely a chance to fall victim of the cycle of poor choices.

Look at our problem attracting free agents. Why does Utah have a problem? Because we are boring? Boring without the club scenes that have place multimillionaires like Adam Jones out of the NFL. Or boring because you don't need a gun (even though now the Right is worshipping guns and fear you might) that have ended careers of the likes of many multimillionaires athletes.

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[One Brow]

= you saying "shut up"

To be clear, I welcome your conversation any time you feel you can manage joining in. While we often disagree, you give every impression of wanting to be a better person (just as I want to be a better person).

I'm only trying to recognize that you find me off-putting and don't want to engage me, so I mentioned an opportunity for that to happen. It's up to you to take it or not.

Thank you for proving that you actually do tell people to shut up.

I thought that encouraging you to speak in location you found safe was the opposite of telling you to shut up.

Do you believe that every opinion that anyone has is worthy of a long, lengthy debate and to be treated as a legitimate opinion to have? Or, are you objecting to style?

 

[One Brow]

I believe that it has origins of story telling. But, when gangster rap came along it totally romanticizes the thug life.

Do you feel the same way about gangster movies like The GodFather?

 

[One Brow]

I'm confused by what you are saying what types of lifestyles are country and metal promoting? They are hardly talking about making money selling drugs, disrespecting women, shooting others, or trying to be the toughest.

Even in my limited experience, I have heard country songs talk about those things. I'l bet if you think about it, you can remember that have too.

If you are living in a rougher neighborhood this celebrates poor behavior. More likely a chance to fall victim of the cycle of poor choices.

Again, it seems to me you confuse cause and effect here.

Look at our problem attracting free agents. Why does Utah have a problem? Because we are boring? Boring without the club scenes that have place multimillionaires like Adam Jones out of the NFL. Or boring because you don't need a gun (even though now the Right is worshipping guns and fear you might) that have ended careers of the likes of many multimillionaires athletes.

Do we have more of a problem than Milwaukee, San Antonio, or Sacremento?

 

[Thee Idiotic Minivan K]

I have privileges because I'm white. Now what? What did that just solve?

Nothing. That’s the point, Korver tells the story of his close friendship with Thabo while both were on the Hawks. Like you, Korver is genuinely a good dude, not racist or anything like that. Thabo, to him wasn’t just another teammate, they were close friends. The moment he heard what happened the first thought was what did he do. Well he didn’t do anything. Korver judged his good friend without knowing the full details and that made him open his eyes. Had Thabo looked more like Korver, that situation may have been different. This is why he said he needed to say to himself to shut up and listen.

I remember when Kaep sat for the anthem, when I saw highlights of that preseason game that showed him sitting, my first reaction was that Kaepernick was being selfish because there was a chance he might lose his starting job. But then I heard his explanation for his cause and I was all of a sudden finding myself respecting him more and thinking to myself, I’m down with that. However a lot of people continued to look at him as just another defiant blak man and for the most part didn’t let go of their hate.

Korver s message is we need to let go of our pride and realize what’s going on racism didn’t go away after everything that happened after slavery and it’s aftermath. It’s only evolved. We as a people need to change our thinking, then maybe we can do away with white privilege.

Meaning if we are placed in a situation to speak up we should.
We need to shut up and listen.

I don’t know if this makes sense to anyone, I’m not the best at articulating my thoughts.

 

[Mission Accomplished]

Here is a thought I just had ...the most important piece of Korvers writting is that because of his "white privilege" he has the ability to sink back into the "crowd". Why that is the most important part is because this is the oppressor mentality. Thinking about this from that prospective we do this all the time. This is nationalism, this is sexism, and the list goes on. "White Privilege" is equal to years of not speaking up on behalf of the oppressed. It is happening right now with "illegal immigrants" = oppressed people, Muslim = oppressed people, LQBTQlmnop = oppressed people, women = oppressed people, the list goes on. Some of the oppression has gone on for years. Some is self inflicted. But, what Korver said should strick a nerve because as long as we are vocal and opposing this oppression we are using our "privilege" to try to change these problems. We become part of the machine or problem when we do nothing and sink back into the crowd.

In his article he also is enabling poor behavior by questioning himself for questioning Thabo. Because Thabo multimillionaire chose to go out put himself in that situation. He could have been a voice of reason or guidance to help him not make that choice. But, instead because he perceives that it could be construed as racist he fades into the crowd.

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[AlaskanAssassin]

Ummm ok?

Just wondering what you think white privilege is? Seems like an odd thing to say.

What's odd about it? I believe racist people exist within every racial group. I don't believe there are systematic established advantages that any one race has over another. The advantages that we see, that many prescribe to "White Privilege" is actually class privilege. If you were born poor, you have a high probability of being poor throughout your life. If you were born wealthy, you are likely to remain wealthy. This correlates to rates of incarceration, drug use rates, single parenthood rate, high-school drop out rate, etc. This is irrespective of race.

If white privilege exists, why are Asians the highest earning racial group in the United States? Are they immune to the negative impacts of "White Privilege"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income

First step in solving a problem is admitting there is one.
White privilege exists. It’s real. How extensive, damaging and what not is open to discussion. It existing really isn’t.
It’s real dude, come on...

I'm not sure admitting that it exists will solve anything. My issue with Kyle's article is that it offered zero solutions.

The term "White Privilege" is tossed around so frequently that's it's turned into an auto-response in what otherwise could be meaningful discussions on race and equality. See below: