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Jalen Rose, Pail Pierce, Jay Williams comment on Donovan

While other team help their no1 player play their best game. What we've done is to load Donovan/Rudy with burdens. Take the ball out of Donovan’s hand. Have Rudy carry the entire teams defense/perimeter/rebounding on his shoulder. Imagine Mavs play Doncic at power forward. Lakers uses Lebron as a three point shooter. Or Bucks packs the paint for Giannis instead of surrounding him with shooters. Then maybe these same guys will question whether Luka/LBJ/Giannis deserves max

Dude, we brought in Mike Conley, Bojan Bogdanovic and Jordan Clarkson for Grayson Allen, Jae Crowder, a late pick and Dante Exum. Those are good moves, and Conley is starting to do what we've been expecting him to do. The Jazz just need to add a big wing with length.
 
Dude, we brought in Mike Conley, Bojan Bogdanovic and Jordan Clarkson for Grayson Allen, Jae Crowder, a late pick and Dante Exum. Those are good moves, and Conley is starting to do what we've been expecting him to do. The Jazz just need to add a big wing with length.
Conley is a bad fit. Donovan needs an offball shooter who can guard multiple position as his backcourt partner. Malcolm Brogdon for example. Conley is a one-position defender. Having Conley on the court means Donovan will have to mismatch with bigger players on every possession. Not to mention Conley is more of a ball dominant PG than an offball shooter. He takes the ball out of Donovan’s hand and has been slow on his feet all season. His decline on lateral quickness has everything to do with our struggling on perimeter D. And even though Bojan’s been a good shooter for us, he’s been a big minus on that end as well. His lack of defense/rebounding/hustle play, all leads to Rudy having to overwork himself to 200% every game to cover his teammates defensive miscues, and all of our backup Cs failing to keep up in that regard.
 
Conley is a bad fit. Donovan needs an offball shooter who can guard multiple position as his backcourt partner. Malcolm Brogdon for example. Conley is a one-position defender. Having Conley on the court means Donovan will have to mismatch with bigger players on every possession. Not to mention Conley is more of a ball dominant PG than an offball shooter. He takes the ball out of Donovan’s hand and has been slow on his feet all season. His decline on lateral quickness has everything to do with our struggling on perimeter D. And even though Bojan’s been a good shooter for us, he’s been a big minus on that end as well. His lack of defense/rebounding/hustle play, all leads to Rudy having to overwork himself to 200% every game to cover his teammates defensive miscues, and all of our backup Cs failing to keep up in that regard.

There are better fits than Conley, but Conley put up 24pts and 8asts last night and made it so Donovan wasn't completely exhausted in the 4th quarter. That's what he was brought in to do. He's a credible shooter, a good creator and an adequate, if small, defender. That makes him an upgrade over Rubio. The only problem is that he's being paid too much.
 
There are better fits than Conley, but Conley put up 24pts and 8asts last night and made it so Donovan wasn't completely exhausted in the 4th quarter. That's what he was brought in to do. He's a credible shooter, a good creator and an adequate, if small, defender.
They are far from good signings at the price we paid for. If we just need a guard who can create(but lacks consistency) so DM can take a breather, isn't JC already doing that for us? If we need an offball shooter who absolutely sucks at everything else(<3ast,<4rebs per game), I'm sure there are cheaper options than Bojan as well. So we wouldnt have to give up Ricky/Favs/Crowder, actual role players who dig in and do all the dirty work for us so our stars can shine. But now our stars have to do these dirty works themselves because now all we have are “stars” and “Gleaguers”, with little in between.
 
They are far from good signings at the price we paid for. If we just need a guard who can create(but lacks consistency) so DM can take a breather, isn't JC already doing that for us? If we need an offball shooter who absolutely sucks at everything else(<3ast,<4rebs per game), I'm sure there are cheaper options than Bojan as well. So we wouldnt have to give up Ricky/Favs/Crowder, actual role players who dig in and do all the dirty work for us so our stars can shine. But now our stars have to do these dirty works themselves because now all we have are “stars” and “Gleaguers”, with little in between.

Ricky became unplayable in the playoffs against Houston last year. Favors was an overpaid backup 5 and one of the worst 4s in the league. Grayson Allen couldn't get on the floor with the Jazz. Jae Crowder is a journeyman. The Jazz didn't give up much. This year's Jazz team is better than last year's.

And no, Clarkson is not a replacement for an actual PG like Conley. Clarkson is a dedicated scorer. Full stop.
 
Ricky became unplayable in the playoffs against Houston last year. Favors was an overpaid backup 5 and one of the worst 4s in the league. Grayson Allen couldn't get on the floor with the Jazz. Jae Crowder is a journeyman. The Jazz didn't give up much. This year's Jazz team is better than last year's.

And no, Clarkson is not a replacement for an actual PG like Conley. Clarkson is a dedicated scorer. Full stop.
except Favs was not just a backup 5. he also happened to be our starting 4 in 70 out of 76 games last season. and guess how many 4s do we have on this current roster right now? ZERO. yes ricky wasn't great in the playoffs last year. yes, crowder's been a career journeyman. but those guys are the very definition of "role players" that every team needs. they do dirty works so our stars don't have to do them.

could you imagine lebron watch his non-star teammates iso as he stood aside? could you imagine mavs ask luka to box out so his teammate could collect a rebound? could you imagine Rockets ask Harden to stand in the corner as a bystander watching his teammates pick/n roll on top of the key? That is exactly what we are doing to rudy and donovan right now. Because nobody could hustle. Noone could box out. Noone could sacrifice his body to set a real hard screen for his teammate. so our "franchise players" have to do those jobs themselves. Hence these questions were asked. We are treating DM/Rudy as regular team players, instead of franchise cornerstones/league's superstars.

People kept saying it is up to rudy/donovan to take us to the next step. But would Harden take the next step if he wasn't made the starting PG under D'Antoni then brought in a guy like PJ Tucker, who was the very definition of "role player"? Would Giannis've taken the next step if bucks didn't surround him with 4 shooters? Would Luka be where he is now if mavs kept DSJ then took the ball out of his hand? We've done the exact opposite to DM/Rudy by bringing guys like Bojan and Conley. You just don't help your stars that way.
 
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In other words, if you wanna build a system around DM/Rudy, you simply don't bring in Bojan/Conley. these guys are not supplementary pieces. they are core players... we have too many "core"players that need other supplementary pieces around them, not enough supplementary pieces to really put together a system.. around anyone
 
It depends on his age. If he's under 16 y/o then it's not that big of deal. If he's over that age then damn.
If it wasn’t being talked about so often I wouldn’t talk about it lol. Twitter is a place that is always talking.
This is probably true right @oneye? I am guessing with all the obsessing and following anything posted about Mitchell on twitter that might be the case. Which I guess is somewhat normal.

Twitter talks a lot about a lot of stupid stuff. That doesn't mean you have to read all of it and post/obsess over it. Of course people are talking about it, Mitchell is a big name player and popular. He could be in NY or LA and people would be talking about him moving to somewhere else. The reality is its no where close to happening. You should worry about it in a few years when its closer to the end of his contract. I know you like to troll with this stuff since you have admitted as much, but it is annoying. So I guess you are getting what you want.
 
While other team help their no1 player play their best game. What we've done is to load Donovan/Rudy with burdens. Take the ball out of Donovan’s hand. Have Rudy carry the entire teams paint defense/perimeter cover/rebounding on his shoulder.

Imagine Mavs puts Doncic at power forward. Lakers uses Lebron as a three point shooter. Or Bucks packs the paint for Giannis instead of surrounding him with shooters. Then maybe these same guys will question whether Luka/LBJ/Giannis deserves max
?? Yeah idk about this whole post. They’ve given these guys help tbh. Bogey being out is a significant hit. The issue, too many guys have underperformed all season. Now Mike is playing fine but Bogeys gone and literally everyone else is playing like trash outside Rudy, Mike, and Donovan.
 
Paul Pierce for a change had the perfect assessment. Jalen Rose ... clown.
Maybe somewhat lol, we’ll see. Idk if PP take was perfect itself lol. 6’6” is the cutoff for superstar who can win you a title.
 
It starts to piss me off that I see recently so many people totally disrespecting Bogey around here. I get that he is a weak defender but some treat him as he is Niang. He can score in different ways, he has done it on regular basis from the beginning of the season, often carrying us when everybody else was playing like ****. And his clutchness is a big advantage which helped us win close games what we were unable to do before.
 
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except Favs was not just a backup 5. he also happened to be our starting 4 in 70 out of 76 games last season. and guess how many 4s do we have on this current roster right now? ZERO. yes ricky wasn't great in the playoffs last year. yes, crowder's been a career journeyman. but those guys are the very definition of "role players" that every team needs. they do dirty works so our stars don't have to do them.

could you imagine lebron watch his non-star teammates iso as he stood aside? could you imagine mavs ask luka to box out so his teammate could collect a rebound? could you imagine Rockets ask Harden to stand in the corner as a bystander watching his teammates pick/n roll on top of the key? That is exactly what we are doing to rudy and donovan right now. Because nobody could hustle. Noone could box out. Noone could sacrifice his body to set a real hard screen for his teammate. so our "franchise players" have to do those jobs themselves. Hence these questions were asked. We are treating DM/Rudy as regular team players, instead of franchise cornerstones/league's superstars.

People kept saying it is up to rudy/donovan to take us to the next step. But would Harden take the next step if he wasn't made the starting PG under D'Antoni then brought in a guy like PJ Tucker, who was the very definition of "role player"? Would Giannis've taken the next step if bucks didn't surround him with 4 shooters? Would Luka be where he is now if mavs kept DSJ then took the ball out of his hand? We've done the exact opposite to DM/Rudy by bringing guys like Bojan and Conley. You just don't help your stars that way.
This is an excellent post.

I'm not in agreement over Bojan as much, but the thought process is spot on when talking about why the Conley pursuit was so stupid.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
 
This is an excellent post.

I'm not in agreement over Bojan as much, but the thought process is spot on when talking about why the Conley pursuit was so stupid.

Sent from my SM-G970U using JazzFanz mobile app
Bojan and Conley were core players for Pacers and Grizzs last season in which these teams had role players/supplementary pieces around them. Not saying core players couldn't transition into good supplementary pieces later in their career... But we have not seen that sort of transition in Bojan or Conley so far this season. I don't see them doing any sort of role-player-style of dirty work that Favs/Crowder/Ricky has been doing for us last season and that's the problem. Too many core players that need role players around them... But not enough actual “role players” to do the jobs that actual stars wouldn't wanna do.

Especially for Conley, he came from a system that treated every player as “regular team members”. I.e. nobody gets luka/Giannis/harden type of superstar treatment. If that's the route that we wanna go, we’ll have to accept that we are not building a team around DM and he won't be able to take “the next step” unfortunately.
 
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?? Yeah idk about this whole post. They’ve given these guys help tbh. Bogey being out is a significant hit. The issue, too many guys have underperformed all season. Now Mike is playing fine but Bogeys gone and literally everyone else is playing like trash outside Rudy, Mike, and Donovan.
What kind of help? Would luka appreciate it if Mavs kept DSJ and told him "yeah, we are helping you out"?

For this Jazz team right now, help=boxing out, rebounding, perimeter D/cover, setting screens, hustle play, energy play, any work that role players are generally assigned to do so our franchise player doesn't have to get his hands dirty.

And our stars currently aren't getting any of them.
 
And another:
A8C23585-0770-4C82-9893-CCB2C24E7652.jpeg
I don’t know who’s putting this out there, it may have nothing to do with Donovan himself, but there is someone putting a concerted effort to get this out there. I’ve seen too many people with at least some known NBA sources hint at/say something similar.
 
And another:
View attachment 9652
I don’t know who’s putting this out there, it may have nothing to do with Donovan himself, but there is someone putting a concerted effort to get this out there. I’ve seen too many people with at least some known NBA sources hint at/say something similar.

I simply don't believe this. In his own words, Donovan said...

"At the end of the day, if you rock my jersey, then you should know what I stand for. You should know what’s on my heart. And what’s on my heart, after five long, surreal, difficult months, is this….
I love Utah. I love the Jazz. I love all my fans. I love the game of basketball."


Now if he writes this and then doesn't sign a max contract extension, then you can come on here and have these debates. I don't see how he can write that in August of 2020 then months later only sign a one year deal with hopes to leave.
 
Very simple “you’re great, it’s not you...it’s me”. We’ll see. Regardless, shouldn’t be a conversation or question that he’s signing it. And yet it is. Someone is putting it out there. I’ve seen too many people with some NBA sources say it. Doesn’t mean it’s his camp, but someone is.

Maybe it's his camp so our front office will give him everything financially possible. Maybe it's somebody else because they really wish they had him and want to create drama.

At this point, all we can do is have faith and trust in his own words. He loves it here.
 
Maybe it's his camp so our front office will give him everything financially possible. Maybe it's somebody else because they really wish they had him and want to create drama.

At this point, all we can do is have faith and trust in his own words. He loves it here.
It is absolutely no secret that the front office is giving him a full max contract. Tony has reported it for months now. Tony even reported that even if he got injured in Orlando, the FO would still give him his max extension. This isn’t a secret.
 
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