I Don't Want Clarkson Back

[Handlogten's Heros]

I just think the odds that Clarkson re-signs on a good deal on good years are much, much higher than Conley doing so after next year, and we need at least one of them.

Also, Conley's ****ing old and tiny, y'all. Let's just be very real about that.

If he struggles it will be because (insert body part) is bothering him... RELAX HE"S MIKE EFFING CONLEY!!!!!

Its okay to say "**** that trade didn't work like I wanted it to... maybe we should pivot".

If we let JC walk and keep Mike and still start him it will compound the problem.

Also, JC didn't keep us afloat when Bojan was out... he kept us afloat when MIKE was out. The starting lineup didn't suffer at all with Mike out... IDK what does that say?

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You know whenever someone is quadrupling down on Conley’s career stats that there’s a good lol to be had.

Or when they cut it to a 15 game sample when he started making shots and say "see he just needed time". Or its that you can limit the sample size and make players look how you want. Again, Ricky had better shooting splits and raw numbers over the same period of time.

 

[Ferguson_Mellochill]

Jazz apparently like him. He's instant offense off the bench, and he even passes the ball now and again.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

On this earth... You just ****ing said it! I give zero effs what Conley has done over his entire career. JC is in his prime and Mike is on the backside or end of his career.

This year TS% for JC with Utah - 56.9% Mike was 53.7%

Scoring per36 - 23 for JC 18 for Mike

Mike is well rounded and a better creator but you don't get extra beauty points for getting points within the system. Jordan doesn't really miss games either... and he will cost like $20-25M less this year.

Even the Warriors needed KD to deviate from the beautiful game sometimes to just get a ****ing bucket. JC does it in iso and is a one man bench scoring unit, but some defense and shooting around him and play him 24 minutes a night and its worth 10M a year.

You actually do get more points for being within the system, it's called making your teammates better and is a huge part of winning basketball.

 

[NAOS]

Or when they cut it to a 15 game sample when he started making shots and say "see he just needed time". Or its that you can limit the sample size and make players look how you want. Again, Ricky had better shooting splits and raw numbers over the same period of time.

Did you hear that Conley gained 15 lbs of muscle even during this short offseason?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Jazz apparently like him. He's instant offense off the bench, and he even passes the ball now and again.

I think (maybe this is more hope) that it's just the Jazz being smart about asset management. It's better to keep JC, hopefully on a good deal, then let him go for nothing. If JC has another year similar to last season statistically he could fetch a late first rounder from a contender come trade deadline.

Also, I'm still slightly perplexed by how much Snyder didnt like Burks compared to how much of a greenlight JC gets. I know a big bulk of it is Clarkson's shot math is much better (he takes a higher volume of "good" shots), but Clarkson is still a terrible team player and I just have a hard time Snyder is truly in love with that as much as he just saw it as a Band-Aid. Time will tell.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

You actually do get more points for being within the system, it's called making your teammates better and is a huge part of winning basketball.

So is having guys that get their own damn buckets! So if Mike is so great at getting others involved and plays with the starters more than the bench how come our offensive rating was 112.2 with him on the court and 116.7 with JC on the court.

Sometimes your teammates aren't as good at putting the ball in the basket... so let's not get them involved. Houston built an amazing efficient offense built on iso-ball. There are a lot of ways to get it.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

So is having guys that get their own damn buckets! So if Mike is so great at getting others involved and plays with the starters more than the bench how come our offensive rating was 112.2 with him on the court and 116.7 with JC on the court.

Sometimes your teammates aren't as good at putting the ball in the basket... so let's not get them involved. Houston built an amazing efficient offense built on iso-ball. There are a lot of ways to get it.

I understand all of that. I just don't think Jordan Clarkson is that guy. He was a band-aid, not a solution. It's time to move on unless they really think his value is enough to flip down the line. They will be hurting the overall ceiling of the team by continuing with him though instead of going with a guy like JH.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I think (maybe this is more hope) that it's just the Jazz being smart about asset management. It's better to keep JC, hopefully on a good deal, then let him go for nothing. If JC has another year similar to last season statistically he could fetch a late first rounder from a contender come trade deadline.

Also, I'm still slightly perplexed by how much Snyder didnt like Burks compared to how much of a greenlight JC gets. I know a big bulk of it is Clarkson's shot math is much better (he takes a higher volume of "good" shots), but Clarkson is still a terrible team player and I just have a hard time Snyder is truly in love with that as much as he just saw it as a Band-Aid. Time will tell.

Maybe Snyder is getting smarter and realizing mistakes he made. I think JC is much more reliable. AB takes that extra few dribble to nowhere whereas JC just goes to get his and does it without hesitation. I think coaches trust guys more when they feel like they know what they are getting.

 

[Jingled]

I just think he could be so much more valuable if he was a more willing passer. Like I get that he's a scorer and it's his job to come in off the bench and get buckets but he misses so many guys that are standing wide open while he's going up against two or three defenders. A little less dribbling and shooting and a little more passing would make the team even more effective when he's on the floor IMO.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I understand all of that. I just don't think Jordan Clarkson is that guy. He was a band-aid, not a solution. It's time to move on unless they really think his value is enough to flip down the line. They will be hurting the overall ceiling of the team by continuing with him though instead of going with a guy like JH.

Sometimes when you have a cut... a band aid is the best solution. JC is a band aid and will be paid like a band aid. If his price is over $10M a year I will hesitate a bit... I think the biggest thing hurting this teams ceiling is the 34M we are paying to Mike and him not playing like the guy we thought we were getting.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

I just think he could be so much more valuable if he was a more willing passer. Like I get that he's a scorer and it's his job to come in off the bench and get buckets but he misses so many guys that are standing wide open while he's going up against two or three defenders. A little less dribbling and shooting and a little more passing would make the team even more effective when he's on the floor IMO.

Yeah, but part of the reason he is good at scoring is that he doesnt look at anything but the rim.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Sometimes when you have a cut... a band aid is the best solution. JC is a band aid and will be paid like a band aid. If his price is over $10M a year I will hesitate a bit... I think the biggest thing hurting this teams ceiling is the 34M we are paying to Mike and him not playing like the guy we thought we were getting.

I dont care about his salary in regards to the cap. If you pay him 10 vs 13 it's nbd if the plan is to keep him. I worry more about the salary because the only upside I see in signing him is trading him. That's where salary really matters at this point.

And Conley is going to be that guy next year like he was that guy late in the season.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Throwing out something that is working because it is imperfect is fairly dumb. If it was perfect it would cost a lot more.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Throwing out something that is working because it is imperfect is fairly dumb. If it was perfect it would cost a lot more.

Got it. The Jazz are a good team and everything is working for the most part. Let's forget any discussions from now on.

 

[stormkoopacv03]

JC's instant offense was what we needed off the bench and he delivered when he came to the Jazz. Before the trade, we sucked big time getting points from the bench. I'm still all for bringing JC back.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I dont care about his salary in regards to the cap. If you pay him 10 vs 13 it's nbd if the plan is to keep him. I worry more about the salary because the only upside I see in signing him is trading him. That's where salary really matters at this point.

And Conley is going to be that guy next year like he was that guy late in the season.

the higher the number the more nervous I would be primarily because of trade value. Not a monster difference from 10 to 12 but the bigger the deal the harder it is to move.

If he is still working like he was last year then you keep him and the difference is negligible.

Lose him this year and then Mike walks or is washed next year and you are in deep ****... maybe there isn't upside but there is downside in letting him walk.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Got it. The Jazz are a good team and everything is working for the most part. Let's forget any discussions from now on.

Nope... that part of the team is working... do better.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Also, Jalen Harris is going to be a much better NBA player than JC and it seems like he can be had in the 40s/50s of this draft.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

JC's instant offense was what we needed off the bench and he delivered when he came to the Jazz. Before the trade, we sucked big time getting points from the bench. I'm still all for bringing JC back.

Mike had a hard time getting separation at times this year... JC does not have that issue. I think Mike could be a more well rounded super sub but I'd worry he'd have an injury here or there and he wouldn't be able to get what he wants. JC moves well and uses his size when he's in the paint well. I just think he's better at that role than Mike is and he's a whole lot more budget friendly.