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Lockout!!!

InGameStrategy said:
I agree that it appears that the big-salary players (and their agents) are driving the discussion on the player side, when the low-salary players, the near-retirees, and young players who recently started their NBA careers (or haven't even played a game) would be more inclined to go for the 50-50 split and start playing ball.
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the near retires have a lot of cash so those are the rich. dont think they go for 50-50
 
DutchJazzer said:
the near retires have a lot of cash so those are the rich. dont think they go for 50-50
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The near-retirees should be pushing for a deal even more because they don't have as much time left. Exhibit A: Okur. Exhibit B: Raja. Haven't heard much from them--although MO is busy playing and Raja is probably busy watching movies.

Looks like Kobe, by contrast, doesn't care too much one way or the other. Then again, he has more overseas options than most other players, and he might like to spend some time internationally just to expand his legacy. (For Nike, etc., it's a partial win-win.)

Someone like Crymelo could potentially play during the full 10-year CBA so he does have more to lose by agreeing early, but only if they could somehow make the deal better by waiting.

Players are likely pushing for what would be a maximum of a (2%/50%=)4% increase over a 50-50 deal to 52%. I don't believe that the owners will give them one penny more than 50% of BRI, so it's fruitless anyway IMHO to not sit down and try to come to a 50-50 agreement.

Four percent of a ten-year contract is 4/10 of a year, which means that any stalling by the players is counterproductive if the lockout goes longer than 4.8 months (if based on a year; even less if it is based on the length of a season). Most players don't play 10 years, though, so a holdout of an even shorter period is counterproductive for most players--perhaps already the case.

Not sure if you start counting from July or October or November, but everybody definitely loses if the entire season is cancelled and the agreement parameters don't change. I imagine that the players get paid for the preseason, so they have probably already started losing out.
 
InGameStrategy said:
The near-retirees should be pushing for a deal even more because they don't have as much time left. Exhibit A: Okur. Exhibit B: Raja. Haven't heard much from them--although MO is busy playing and Raja is probably busy watching movies.

Looks like Kobe, by contrast, doesn't care too much one way or the other. Then again, he has more overseas options than most other players, and he might like to spend some time internationally just to expand his legacy. (For Nike, etc., it's a partial win-win.)

Someone like Crymelo could potentially play during the full 10-year CBA so he does have more to lose by agreeing early, but only if they could somehow make the deal better by waiting.

Players are likely pushing for what would be a maximum of a (2%/50%=)4% increase over a 50-50 deal to 52%. I don't believe that the owners will give them one penny more than 50% of BRI, so it's fruitless anyway IMHO to not sit down and try to come to a 50-50 agreement.

Four percent of a ten-year contract is 4/10 of a year, which means that any stalling by the players is counterproductive if the lockout goes longer than 4.8 months (if based on a year; even less if it is based on the length of a season). Most players don't play 10 years, though, so a holdout of an even shorter period is counterproductive for most players--perhaps already the case.

Not sure if you start counting from July or October or November, but everybody definitely loses if the entire season is cancelled and the agreement parameters don't change. I imagine that the players get paid for the preseason, so they have probably already started losing out.
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I think the near-retirees have bought into the notion that by sticking to their guns and not accepting a 50-50 split is best move going forward for the future NBA players. What they don't understand is that the owners may just say this is the best you are going to get and we could even offer a worse deal if you don't accept it now. Anyway, it's frustrating as a fan to watch this unfold. I am not optimistic at all that the season starts on time.
 
jazzman12 said:
Reading through some of those articles, it makes it even easier to hate guys like Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett. Those guys have had many, many years of making NBA max money under their belts, they have endorsement deals coming our their asses (even after the rape) and I would have to assume that even if they never played another minute of NBA basketball in their lives, their financial future is already more than set. I bet it's pretty easy to sit in that position and tell fellow NBA players that they should agree not to budge from a 53% share. That smacks of so much arrogance.

While missing games in an effort to sweeten the deal may be just fine for those 2, try telling guys like Jeremy Evans it's worth missing an entire season for a few extra percentage points. The majority of the NBA is made up of non-Kobe's and non-Garnetts. I hope the rank and file players tell Kobe and friends to take their demands and shove them up their asses.
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....excellent post! But I hope the Kobes and the Garnetts convince the slop dummies to stay the course....so the whole season is a washout....and we get a year break from the pathetic basketball played in todays NBA!
 
carolinajazz said:
....excellent post! But I hope the Kobes and the Garnetts convince the slop dummies to stay the course....so the whole season is a washout....and we get a year break from the pathetic basketball played in todays NBA!
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Is there any way you could post this opinion more often? I don't think anybody could possibly get tired of reading it.
 
Joe Bagadonuts said:
Is there any way you could post this opinion more often? I don't think anybody could possibly get tired of reading it.
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Do yourself a favour and throw him on ignore. I personally get a kick out of his posts, but they seem to irritate you a bunch; I'm surprised you haven't done something about it.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I still haven't been able to wrap my head around this idea that a model that has worked for years and years (because it's a revenue SPLIT, the players make a share of the income for better or for worse) suddenly has the league losing $300 million every year, with the worst year (according to owners) coming from a year where the league made record profits and where owners spent the least percentage of their income on players in years.

I would love to see these financial documents that the league is waving around but not showing anyone.
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If the teams were to show you (or anyone) their financial documents, it would be like picking up a 500 page book written in Japanese and trying to read it. And the ones that would like to pretend they understood it, would be throwing inaccurate "facts" around like crazy. I'm sure there is greed coming from both sides, but I think the NBA knows if they dont put their foot down with the players union, their is going to be many teams struggling for survival. The players are good. If the wealthy players cant budget their 10, 13, 17, 20, 22 etc.... millions of dollars per year, thats their problem. Most players dont make that kind of money, and they're wanting the big fish and thier greedy agents to compromise and come to an agreement. A negotiation is about both sides compromising, and so far the players union has barely dipped into any kind of negotiation at all.
 
carolinajazz said:
....I still like the NBA....I'm just taking the side of the owners! Of course, neither side is all together right. But I keep posting on this thread because it's entitled LOCKOUT! I happen to think a long lockout will correct alot of what ails the NBA. Ok, you got me......I actually think todays NBA is beyond repair no matter what deal is cut by the owners...and I should stop all this ranting and raving!
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I agree with CarolinaJazz. And as another fan asked, "what good do you think will come out of a long lockout?"____ Well we all know money and salaries are what is going to end this thing. But there are other negotiations that are being dealt with. Such as big market teams having a higher salary cap than a low market team. - If this salary structure had been in place for the last 15 years I promise you that you wouldnt see the same teams having an advantage over free agents and big time players year after year. (You wouldnt have a Lebron, Wade and Bosh on the same team; or Garnett, Pierce, Allen and Rondo) Players wouldnt be able to screw their current team over and just up and leave to join 2 other allstars in hopes of a championship. They would actually have to figure out how to grow a pair and beat the other allstars in the NBA instead of join them.
The other negotiation is that if a player is injured, the team is allowed to cut back their salary. This prevents guys like Carlos Boozer sitting on the bench for a year (and getting payed a big money contract) with a stubbed toe. Players would have to play through a little adversity like they used to in the 80's and early 90's.
Their is way more good than bad that could come out of the lockout. I want basketball back too, but I would rather wait and have a Jazz team to watch, then have them cave early and be rooting for the Seattle Jazz.
 
Somebody just guaranteed me free courtside tickets for Lakers/Knicks @ MSG Feb 10. Please let this season happen.
 
if i was the owners/nba once a game is cancelled i would tell the players union there was a 50/50 split.
and every week(or 2 week) of the season is missed the offer drops another 1 percent.
 
DutchJazzer said:
if i was the owners/nba once a game is cancelled i would tell the players union there was a 50/50 split.
and every week(or 2 week) of the season is missed the offer drops another 1 percent.
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And then half the players go to Europe and the other half start their own small league. You as an owner are forced to sell your stadium for pennies on the dollar by somone who could use it as a large shopping mall.
 
BTW, Chris Broussard said it was the owners who caved on the notion that they shouldn't even have a meeting tonight unless the union is willing to accept a 50-50 split as a precondition.
 
OK – tell me what you think about this half-baked pie-in-the sky idea:

The real problem the NBA has is competitive balance; specifically, a team has no real chance if it doesn’t have a superstar. And certain teams have a much greater shot of getting/keeping a superstar than others.

The solution:

Allow up to 5 current players a year to be “drafted” by any team as part of the draft.

Here’s the catch:
a) While rookies would be on the regular rookie pay scale, the current players “drafted” would be on a “superstar” scale which is considerably higher than other players (for example, if the non-superstar top contract was $15 million, the “superstar” contracts would be on a scale of $24-30 million, or something similar, with the top draftees earning the higher pay). That would be the tradeoff – the superstars get much lower team continuity for much higher salaries.
b) Each superstar drafted could be kept by his team only for three years. Then he would be eligible to be drafted as a superstar once again.

Here’s the advantages I see:
a) Would greatly help competitive advantage, as down teams would be able to have a much quicker turn-around time if they played their cards right.
b) Would allow top players (who in truth drive much of the income generation and are the key factors in winning) to be paid more in line with what they’re really worth. Would also allow them to really increase the value of their “brand” and legacy by proving their worth on more than just one team. That’s presumably good for the league, since interest in superstars is so important for income generation.
c) Would increase the interest in the NBA draft, and presumably the turnover would also increase the interest in the NBA as a whole, as there would never be any team that’s ever too far away from being able to rebuild and be competitive. Would also make for some interesting decisions, as GMs decide whether to peg someone from the draft on a rookie contract or a superstar at a superstar contract. The turnover would only be at the very top of the league, and thus team loyalty wouldn’t take too much of a hit.
d) Probably would keep owners from overpaying on marginal stars, as they would recognize that it won’t be too long until they have an opportunity get a real superstar.

There would have to be some things worked out around this, such as how long players are exempted from being drafted as superstars once they enter the league (I’d think something like 5-6 years or until 25-26 years old); whether/what kind of compensation the team losing a superstar would receive; how/when to start it (if it went into this coming CBA, I’d recommend 2013 and have some kind of random assignment of 1/3 of players eligible to become superstars in 2013, 1/3 in 2014, 1/3 in 2015); how to properly scale superstar vs. non-superstar contracts; how to work with salary caps; how to tweak the lottery to make it appropriate for the new draft system; and what to do with a superstar whose 3-year term expires without being picked as a superstar again. But there are smart people in the NBA; I’m sure they could figure out the best way to handle these things.
 
DutchJazzer said:
if i was the owners/nba once a game is cancelled i would tell the players union there was a 50/50 split.
and every week(or 2 week) of the season is missed the offer drops another 1 percent.
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....I'm in the dutchmans corner here! Excellent post and idea!!!
 
Jazz4ever said:
And then half the players go to Europe and the other half start their own small league. You as an owner are forced to sell your stadium for pennies on the dollar by somone who could use it as a large shopping mall.
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...let them go to Europe! Let them go to China! Let them go to the AND1 League! Heck, let them go to the Rutkers playground in N.Y. City!!!! The owners are holding all the chips and the cards! This is a pathetic product.....and although no real changes will be made to the game.....owners are done paying through the nose for it!
 
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