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Game Thread May 12, 2021 07:30PM MT: Jazz vs Blazers

Added to Calendar: 05-12-21

Why are the Rockets relevant to Jazz games? Because they scored 129 points against Portland? How is that relevant? Houston also scored 143 and 136 against the Bucks in the last few days. That means Milwaukee's defense sucks?

We are talking about the Jazz struggling and the reasons for it. Reality? For you it's all about choking, not having the mental fortitude. Maybe you want to take into account the context? who is getting minutes and who shouldn't?. But oh wait, let's talk about the Rockets scoring 129 on a losing effort. Because if they scored that much, that means we must do the same...if not, it's choking. That's how basketball works I guess...
"Of course the Jazz had the worst offensive performance against Portland of any team all season, they're injured and Portland has been playing good lately"

"How is it relevant that an even more injured and far less talented team torched Portland two days ago?"

Just put me on ignore if you're going to keep arguing this disingenuously.
 
Ouch. This game was absolutely brutal from midway through the first quarter onward. Will we be able to consistently make threes in the playoffs? Having Conley and Mitchell back should help, but I'm starting to worry.

Bogey has had such an up and down year. It felt like he had turned a corner against Denver, and now he's suddenly struggling again.
 
"Of course the Jazz had the worst offensive performance against Portland of any team all season, they're injured and Portland has been playing good lately"

"How is it relevant that an even more injured and far less talented team torched Portland two days ago?"

Just put me on ignore if you're going to keep arguing this disingenuously.
You mean TORCHING Portland by LOSING 140-129? By Losing by 17 with less than 3 minutes to go? By scoring a bunch of points in garbage time against Portland's scrubs like TJ Leaf, Keljin Blevins and CJ Elleby? Have you heard about garbage time?

Talking about reality....

And arguing disingenuosly....
 
One comment I want to make about this.

It seems to me that when any random defender swipes down at any random ball handler or any random defender reaches in against any random ball handler that there is often a foul called. Whether a foul actually happened or not it gets called a high percentage of the time.

Except with bojan. Defenders are always swiping down at the ball or reaching at the ball when he is driving and they almost never call a foul. It's like he is treated differently than ever other player in the NBA in that particular scenario.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
I've noted this a lot in the past. Bogey gets the fewest calls of any mid- to high-usage player in the league. Can't believe how much they let him get straight up smacked around with no calls. It ridiculous.
 
Ouch. This game was absolutely brutal from midway through the first quarter onward. Will we be able to consistently make threes in the playoffs? Having Conley and Mitchell back should help, but I'm starting to worry.

Bogey has had such an up and down year. It felt like he had turned a corner against Denver, and now he's suddenly struggling again.
Struggling again? This was his first rough game in maybe the last dozen. 1 bad game (and frankly it wasn't even that bad) in a dozen is more than acceptable.
 
You mean TORCHING Portland by losing 140-129? By Losing by 17 with less than 3 minutes to go? By scoring a bunch of points in garbage time against Portland's scrubs like TJ Leaf, Keljin Blevins and CJ Elleby? Have you heard about garbage time?

Talking about reality....

And arguing disingenuosly....
A 126 offensive rating is torching somebody, yes. They scored 100 points in the first 3 quarters - well before garbage time.

You are arguing disingenuously yet again.
 
Ouch. This game was absolutely brutal from midway through the first quarter onward. Will we be able to consistently make threes in the playoffs? Having Conley and Mitchell back should help, but I'm starting to worry.

Bogey has had such an up and down year. It felt like he had turned a corner against Denver, and now he's suddenly struggling again.
As for the bogey part of your post. I think he is fine. He has been good for a long time now.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
Ouch. This game was absolutely brutal from midway through the first quarter onward. Will we be able to consistently make threes in the playoffs? Having Conley and Mitchell back should help, but I'm starting to worry.

Bogey has had such an up and down year. It felt like he had turned a corner against Denver, and now he's suddenly struggling again.
I think having Mike and Donovan reduces the likelihood of poor shooting games. Donovan also gives the team more options in offense. In poor shooting nights he could get to the FT line, bend the defense and create opportunities for his teammates.

Sure, I can see us having the eventual 6 for 39 from 3, but we will have more weapons. And it's very unlikely we will have 3 or 4 games like this in a 7 game series.

Bogie is fine. He scored 27 against GSW. I am bit more concerned about integrating Mike and DM during the playoffs, and of course, our ability to defend the perimeter. Not so much about scoring.
 
A 126 offensive rating is torching somebody, yes. They scored 100 points in the first 3 quarters - well before garbage time.

You are arguing disingenuously yet again.
Well, if torching a team means scoring points while losing big time, I'm not sure who is the one arguing disingenuously...
 
Well, if torching a team means scoring points while losing big time, I'm not sure who is the one arguing disingenuously...
Torching a team means having a terrific scoring night against them.

Not really sure why you're turning this into a semantics argument, especially since the entire context of the argument has to do with Utah's performance on offense.
 
Torching a team means having a terrific scoring night against them.

Not really sure why you're turning this into a semantics argument, especially since the entire context of the argument has to do with Utah's performance on offense.
Because context matters and you brought the Rockets into the discussion. Portland scored a franchiste record 50 points in the 1Q against the Rockets. They relaxed (like any team would do) but decided to play hard again in the 4Q.

Utah's offense sucked big time this game. We disagree in that you view it as a choking or mental weakness. I just see a team that is tired and is really missing two exceptional players. The last couple of weeks I've kept my expectations low, and to be honest, I've been surprised by some of the games they have been able to pull off. For me all these games are a bonus, can't wait to see the team healthy again so I can judge them fairly. Having Mike and DM will help in closing out games (right now we only have JC or Bogie when they are on).
 
12-40 from 3 for 30% is the reason we lost. Off night. It happens. We’re 8-6 without Mitchell and 6-3 without Mitchell/Conley. To be above .500 without them would be impressive let alone a 66% win percentage.

We’re going to go into the playoffs with the 1 seed and a fully rested Mitchell/Conley. For the people scared of the Lakers... If we can’t beat them in the 1st round with a hobbled AD/LeBron we aren’t good enough to win the championship. The best time to play them would be in the 1st round. I don’t think they fall to 8 but the point still stands.
 
Because context matters and you brought the Rockets into the discussion. Portland scored a franchiste record 50 points in the 1Q against the Rockets. They relaxed (like any team would do) but decided to play hard again in the 4Q.
Wait, they played hard again in the 4th? But you just said Houston only scored a lot because of garbage time?

Since you're getting really hung up on the Rockets example, let's wipe it, because I could bring up a ton of other examples of bad offensive teams breaking 100 against the Blazers. Like, literally all of them, except one other time the whole season.

For the people scared of the Lakers... If we can’t beat them in the 1st round with a hobbled AD/LeBron we aren’t good enough to win the championship. The best time to play them would be in the 1st round. I don’t think they fall to 8 but the point still stands.

I'd agree if we were fully healthy going into the playoffs, but we're going to be bringing a rusted Conley and Mitchell back up to speed. Going from no NBA basketball in a month to suddenly an intense playoff series against the Lakers probably isn't going to be an advantage for the Jazz.
 
12-40 from 3 for 30% is the reason we lost. Off night. It happens. We’re 8-6 without Mitchell and 6-3 without Mitchell/Conley. To be above .500 without them would be impressive let alone a 66% win percentage.

We’re going to go into the playoffs with the 1 seed and a fully rested Mitchell/Conley. For the people scared of the Lakers... If we can’t beat them in the 1st round with a hobbled AD/LeBron we aren’t good enough to win the championship. The best time to play them would be in the 1st round. I don’t think they fall to 8 but the point still stands.
The only way the Lakers fall to 8 is if they stay at 7 and lose their play in game with Golden State or Memphis and then survive their game with the 9/10 winner. I'm rooting for Dallas or Portland to stumble and the Lakers to win out to move up to 6 to avoid the possibility of that scenario but don't want both Portland and Dallas to stumble because at 5 the Lakers re-enter our side of the bracket. Also, I think the Jazz organization has been far too cavalier in continuing to rest Conley and Mitchell. We needed to approach this game with a far greater sense of urgency. (I say this because Conley has already expressed publicly that his injury is minor - and over a week ago, and watching Mitchell walk around the court tonight there was absolutely no hint of distress.) This loss could definitely come back to bite us in the azz.

Mark my words, Phoenix will prevail against Portland tomorrow narrowing our lead to one measly game. Are people really that confident that San Antonio can beat Phoenix and that we can handle OKC and Sacramento on the road ostensibly without Conley and Mitchell again. Those young teams would just love to play spoiler roles - especially against the Jazz (the way we seem to be perceived). We are not out of the woods yet!!! Why are we so nonchalant about this #1 seeding thing!

And personally, I don't ascribe to the earlier is better theory when it comes to playing the Lakers. You probably didn't see how a short-handed Lakers squad manhandled the Suns on Sunday but I did. It brought back memories of JV/Varsity scrimmages in High School, you know when the pre-pubescent boys play against the young men. Better to meet them later when those nagging injuries have a chance to have flared up again IMO.
 
Also, I think the Jazz organization has been far too cavalier in continuing to rest Conley and Mitchell. We needed to approach this game with a far greater sense of urgency. (I say this because Conley has already expressed publicly that his injury is minor - and over a week ago
Wow. I assumed Conley was still pretty hobbled, but I looked it up and yeah, the sentiment among multiple reporters is that Conley, at least, would be playing if it was a playoff game right now.

If that's true, then that's just bad decision making on Utah's end.

Like, I get that getting to the playoffs healthy is the top priority, but at some point you have to look at the standings and go, "Hey, winning this game probably gives us a pretty easy path to the WCF where we'll play a bloodied up Lakers/Clippers/Suns, whereas losing this game means we're a hot Curry shooting night away from playing LeBron/AD in Round 1 with a rusted Conley/Mitchell".

If Conley is hobbled, then you obviously don't play him. But if he's fine and they "would have played him" if it were a playoff game... like, that's just failing to recognize the importance of the damn game.

Hoo boy.
 
My problems with tonight...

1. Nurkic man handled players and had 2 calls through 3 quarters. It rattled us. We need to handle punk basketball better.

2. When we are missing shots its contagious. Their defense frustrated us but then we just got in our heads on open looks. That really limits us.

3. There are almost no other options besides keep shooting. The alternative of going in to gobert has worked. But we need guys that come off the bench and make a couple of shots because that too is contagious.

4. If we win tonight then we need 1 meesly win from 2 games against bottom dwellers to secure #1. Given the tough path for the #2 seed, we really should have gone for it more. Now no margin for errors to control our own destiny.

5. When missing shots, we start to miss layups, free throws, and every 3. We get in our own heads too much.
 
My problems with tonight...

1. Nurkic man handled players and had 2 calls through 3 quarters. It rattled us. We need to handle punk basketball better.

2. When we are missing shots its contagious. Their defense frustrated us but then we just got in our heads on open looks. That really limits us.

3. There are almost no other options besides keep shooting. The alternative of going in to gobert has worked. But we need guys that come off the bench and make a couple of shots because that too is contagious.

4. If we win tonight then we need 1 meesly win from 2 games against bottom dwellers to secure #1. Given the tough path for the #2 seed, we really should have gone for it more. Now no margin for errors to control our own destiny.

5. When missing shots, we start to miss layups, free throws, and every 3. We get in our own heads too much.
Good points, but it's really not even the missed shots that gets me.

It's more the fact that we stop making smart decisions on offense entirely when the game starts taking a southern direction. Like, Ingles goes out of character and jacks up a tightly contested 3, and then next play passes up a completely wide open 3. Bojan goes several possessions without even touching the ball, and when he finally gets it he hoists a silly contested mid-range shot. Gobert tries to create his own offense in the post on three separate occasions early in the 4th. The ball movement is completely dead.

To me it didn't feel like we just missed open looks all game. I think we went a long stretch in the 2nd quarter where we missed open looks, and then we just... stopped working for them and got out of the offense, instead of sticking to it. Quin Snyder mentioned it in post-game interviews - that the important thing when shots aren't falling is to continue to move the ball.

It's a scary habit. Come playoffs, the team has got to stay more composed when things aren't going their way.
 
Trying to stay positive but Jazz are not playing well for a team that wants to win a championship. The second half of the season was suppose to be the easiest schedule and yet they seem to lose games they are suppose to win. My fear is they lose the first seed and get a bad match up and lose in the first or second round. Why isn't Conley playing? I thought he just had tenderness in the hamstring. If this hamstring problem is going to be an on going issue I would rather not re-sign him next year despite his production. I am just so frustrated with how the team has performed lately. Ugh...
 
There is no conclusion or really correlation to this game with our playoff basketball. It's a game we were only half interested in, didn't have our full roster for, tried different looks, and know wasn't important.

Plenty of things could go wrong in the playoffs. But stressing that this game is some sign of things seems silly to me. But I've been wrong before plenty.
 
Wait, they played hard again in the 4th? But you just said Houston only scored a lot because of garbage time?

Since you're getting really hung up on the Rockets example, let's wipe it, because I could bring up a ton of other examples of bad offensive teams breaking 100 against the Blazers. Like, literally all of them, except one other time the whole season.



I'd agree if we were fully healthy going into the playoffs, but we're going to be bringing a rusted Conley and Mitchell back up to speed. Going from no NBA basketball in a month to suddenly an intense playoff series against the Lakers probably isn't going to be an advantage for the Jazz.
Portland scored 50 against them in the 1Q, chilled for two quarters so the Rockets cut the lead to single digits, Lillard came in the 4Q and built the lead back to 17pts. Garbage time followed with the Rockets scrubs scoring 10pts in less than 2min. Not sure how the Rockets were torching them when the Blazers had won the game in the 1Q. Also, you are the one hung up on the Rockets or logic that the Portland defense is so bad we must score a million points against them (I think it was a bad example/logic). For me it's obvious this team is not as good offensively as it was with DM and Conley. We are struggling but the reason for it is not mental fortitude, it's health and bad offensive players getting minutes. We didn't even have clutch minutes with DM and Conley to claim that we fold under pressure (we just were too good). I'll evaluate the team when healthy.

I'm also a bit concerned about them getting ready but having them back is way better than Forrest getting major minutes. And Ingles also needs to play less.
 
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