What if we would have not made the D-Will trade?

[MVP]

he has missed on some first round picks, but come on now, it's not that bad! You sound as though KOC is the only GM that makes bad selections in the 1'st round. Haywards looking good D-Will, Eric Maynor would've been a great backup if we hadn't traded him, Brewer was a bit of a disappointment but he was a starter and wasn't bad, AK was a great pick at #24, Ostertag at I believe #28, although I'm not 100% sure KOC was gm when he was drafted.

The bad: Humphries and of course the Jail bird, Lopez (albeit his career was derailed by injury, and I know he could've drafted Parker, but he may have been pressured into Lopez) and I forget his name, bt the C out of Stanford.

I may have missed some names on both sides, but my point is KOC is no worse than other GMs in the first and better than most in the second round.

AK was drafted by Layden not O'Connor. Dwill over C.Paul to me was and is bad mistake. Hayward has shown nothing yet to say he was worth 9th pick. Humphries and Snyder when you could have had big Al and Josh Smith? Horrible!!! Lopez over Parker or Arenas? Ridiculous! Borchardt over Boozer? Crap! and so on. anybody remembers Almond, Pavlovic?.. Why none of O'Connor's first round picks in 2000-2009 are with Jazz anymore if he drafted good??? Only Hayward so far on rookie deal. And I think Kanter was bad pick as well but that one is yet to be seen.

 

[MVP]

Plus, drafting Gordon Hayward busts your myth as well, seeing as he and Paul George were easily better than 99% of the players that we all wanted to draft instead. Lets not forget that he also drafted the "MVP", that you've dedicated your username to, in the first round.

Why sudden love for Hayward? What has he done so far? Few good games at the end of the season when nothing mattered?? His rookie season stats are way worse then some other players drafted behind him like Ed Davis, L.Fields or P.Patterson for example...
And you guys have very short memory, O'Connors first drafted pick for Jazz was DeShawn Stevenson. AK was drafted by Layden.

 

[MattMan]

Just imagine how bad NJ will look in this trade if the season is cancelled. He would have only played a 1/2 a season for the Nets. That is unless the Russian Mafia is able to threaten him into resigning with that horrid club.

In my best Russian accent, "But look Deron, vee are building large bewlding in Brooklyn. It vill be very niiiiice."

I'm seriously amazed at how good of a trade that was. Imagine what we'd be saying with DWill going to free agency and no Derrick Favors, Harris, Kanter, and no future 1st rounder.......yikes.

Thank you KOC.

 

[just because]

I admit I was not happy with the Hayward pick. Now the crow tastes great. Hayward is my favorite player now.

 

[Stifle Tower]

AK was drafted by Layden not O'Connor. Dwill over C.Paul to me was and is bad mistake. Hayward has shown nothing yet to say he was worth 9th pick. Humphries and Snyder when you could have had big Al and Josh Smith? Horrible!!! Lopez over Parker or Arenas? Ridiculous! Borchardt over Boozer? Crap! and so on. anybody remembers Almond, Pavlovic?.. Why none of O'Connor's first round picks in 2000-2009 are with Jazz anymore if he drafted good??? Only Hayward so far on rookie deal. And I think Kanter was bad pick as well but that one is yet to be seen.

How many other teams passed on Boozer? And go back to what the draft experts said after we snagged Humphries and Snyder. A's from almost every one of them. Yes, KOC has made some mistakes. But if the team was run like we think it was, I;d say you have to place an equal share of the blame on Sloan.

For every player you list, I can provide you with a reason the Jazzz took that player. For example,

Borchardt: high risk/high reward. Jazz needed a big man to take one final run at a championship with Malone, Stockton and Hornacek. Swing and a miss, but it was a decent shot.


Almond: Jazz had 0 proven SG's. Almond was a helluva shooter/scorer. And all his interviews pointed to a guy with a great attitude. Who woulda thunk the guy would turn into the biggest black hole in the universe.


Snyder/Humphries: already cited all the draft experts. Humphries was a top prospect at PF with a NBA-ready body, but lacking experience (a bit like Favors? Kanter?). Snyder was a highly-regarded player with amazing athletic ability. Jazz were hoping he could be a Blue Edwards type player. He turned out being a smaller version of Luther Wright. It's likely KOC, Sloan and Greg did not want to go the HS route again after their experience with DeShawn. I think a small market plays into that. They see a player who will require 3-5 yrs. development and know he'll be at the end of his contract, likely wanting to leave SLC, just as he's ready to contribute.

And how is DWill over CP a bad mistake? CP wants out of NO just like Deron wanted out of Utah. DWill was a more durable player. and he led the Jazz to the WC finals. What was CP's record with NO? What did he do head-to-head against Williams? At best, I'd say it's a wash. They're both fantastic PG's despite completely different styles. Besides, if you read the rumor mill after the draft, it was widely claimed CP was KOC's favorite, but Sloan wanted Deron. I even think that was behind Jerry's retirement, knowing Deron was "his guy" who had turned against him.

 

[MVP]

Yes, KOC has made some mistakes. But if the team was run like we think it was, I;d say you have to place an equal share of the blame on Sloan.

I agree that Sloan had a lot to do when it came to drafting so good point about it. Lets see how Kanter will turn out as this year Sloan had nothing to do with it... unless it was Ty who fell in love after he could not back him down in his Chicago workout, lol.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Why sudden love for Hayward? What has he done so far? Few good games at the end of the season when nothing mattered?? His rookie season stats are way worse then some other players drafted behind him like Ed Davis, L.Fields or P.Patterson for example...
And you guys have very short memory, O'Connors first drafted pick for Jazz was DeShawn Stevenson. AK was drafted by Layden.

LOL. we shouldve drafted Ed Davis? So instead of 6 players (7 if you include AK) that could split time playing Power Forward, we would be better off with an 8th?? Landry Fields is better than Hayward?? Its funny how Fields played nearly DOUBLE the amount that Hayward did over the course of the season (Hayward averaged 17, Fields averaged 31 mpg) and yet he ONLY averaged 4 more points per game. Im not even going to address you mentioning Patrick Patterson, for the sake of my sanity. You are easily one of the most incompetent of posters on this forum.

 

[MVP]

LOL. we shouldve drafted Ed Davis? So instead of 6 players (7 if you include AK) that could split time playing Power Forward, we would be better off with an 8th?? Landry Fields is better than Hayward?? Its funny how Fields played nearly DOUBLE the amount that Hayward did over the course of the season (Hayward averaged 17, Fields averaged 31 mpg) and yet he ONLY averaged 4 more points per game. Im not even going to address you mentioning Patrick Patterson, for the sake of my sanity. You are easily one of the most incompetent of posters on this forum.

Wait, lets get some facts straight:

1: If we would drafted Davis last year instead of Hayward it would be only Millsap, AK, Big Al and Davis who could have played reasonable minutes at PF. Unless you count Okur but he did not play many minutes last season. Evans did some to but that was very little.
Obviously trade for Favors and New Jersey pick which turned into Kanter may not have happened in that scenario.

2.Incompetent? lol, I am judging by stats without homer glasses. You obviously think Hayward is some kind of a superstar waiting to happen - and sorry to burst your bubble but he is not.

3. Patterson played less time and had more pts and more rebounds then Hayward for your information!

4. What about Jordan Crawford? Gary Neal? Paul George? want to argue that Hayward did better then them as well? lol.... Hayward finished last season in 25th place among all rookies in efficiency rankings - not impressive at all! https://www.nba.com/statistics/play...GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=0&splitDD=All Teams

Just friendly advice, before calling others incompetent take your homer glasses off first.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Wait, lets get some facts straight:

1: If we would drafted Davis last year instead of Hayward it would be only Millsap, AK, Big Al and Davis who could have played reasonable minutes at PF. Unless you count Okur but he did not play many minutes last season. Evans did some to but that was very little.
Obviously trade for Favors and New Jersey pick which turned into Kanter may not have happened in that scenario.

2.Incompetent? lol, I am judging by stats without homer glasses. You obviously think Hayward is some kind of a superstar waiting to happen - and sorry to burst your bubble but he is not.

3. Patterson played less time and had more pts and more rebounds then Hayward for your information!

4. What about Jordan Crawford? Gary Neal? Paul George? want to argue that Hayward did better then them as well? lol.... Hayward finished last season in 25th place among all rookies in efficiency rankings - not impressive at all! https://www.nba.com/statistics/play...GAME&qualified=N&yearsExp=0&splitDD=All Teams

Just friendly advice, before calling others incompetent take your homer glasses off first.

Hahaha.

a) Millsap, Okur, Al Jeff, Davis, and Evans. Evans averaged 10mpg last season, and almost all minutes were at the 4. Next season his minutes will most likely go up. Again, logjam. I have no idea why the hell you decided to omit Evans, as "insignificant" but whatever helps you try to win an argument, I guess...
b) So I guess drafting Hayward DID work in our benefit in the end, cuz we have two draft picks that will both most likely be MUCH better than the PFs that were selected after 9th in the 2010 NBA draft. Thanks for solidifying my point, greatly appreciated
b) please quote the post in which I said Hayward was "a superstar waiting to happen". Don't worry, I can wait. In fact, try and find a post of mine in any thread ever on Jazzfanz that has anything similar to that statement.

c) i)of course hell have more rebounds, he's a goddamn POWER FORWARD. Its just like me saying "Oh well Hayward has more assists!!1!!1", Its to be expected.
ii) lol, patrick patterson scored more points off of .2 less minutes. What you didn't include, is the fact that Hayward scored more points on average after the all-star break, with his ppg regressing as the season came to a close (despite the rockets being in the playoff race), with Gordon Hayward peaking at 16.8 ppg in the final month of the NBA.
d) OMG, efficiency ratings. Not gonna even reply to the absurdity of this remark, especially since you're comparing the efficiency of a guard to forwards.
e) Alright, lets compare::

Jordan Crawford: 38.4 FG%, shot 25.8% from 3 last year.....lol. Also played much more minutes than hayward especially after being traded to the wizards (averaged 31 with them). Great comparison champ.
Gary Neal: Pretty weird comparison, especially since he's a point guard, but hey what the hell. As a point guard averaging 21 mpg, Gary Neal averaged 1.2 dimes a game. Hayward averaged .1 less. Gordon Hayward also averaged more assists AS A SMALL FORWARD after the all-star break than Gary Neal did. Lets also remind ourselves that Gordon Hayward had both a greater FG% and a 3P% than Neal
Paul George: I am personally quite a serious fan, and I think it will be interesting to see who between Hayward and George ends up panning out as the better pick. As seen with most other comparisons, Hayward dominated George statistically on almost all accounts (assists, 3p%, FG%, PPG, TOs) with only George only rebounding better, after the all-star break. George also averaged more minutes over the season. So unfortunately for you, your bubble has been burst again.

And its funny, because in the end of the day, the only reason I ended up calling you out for your stupidity is because of this:

Why sudden love for Hayward? What has he done so far? Few good games at the end of the season when nothing mattered?? His rookie season stats are way worse then some other players drafted behind him like Ed Davis, L.Fields or P.Patterson for example...

Way worse?!?! Really? Its funny, because now you are arguing that all of the players are just simply a bit better. Your initial point was that the Hayward pick was metaphorical garbage compared to the slew of other players selected after him. Now we are quickly realizing that you are horribly wrong (even after you changed your point) and the most of us are right. Good talk though.

 

[LogGrad98]

Hahaha.

a) Millsap, Okur, Al Jeff, Davis, and Evans. Evans averaged 10mpg last season, and almost all minutes were at the 4. Next season his minutes will most likely go up. Again, logjam. I have no idea why the hell you decided to omit Evans, as "insignificant" but whatever helps you try to win an argument, I guess...
b) So I guess drafting Hayward DID work in our benefit in the end, cuz we have two draft picks that will both most likely be MUCH better than the PFs that were selected after 9th in the 2010 NBA draft. Thanks for solidifying my point, greatly appreciated
b) please quote the post in which I said Hayward was "a superstar waiting to happen". Don't worry, I can wait. In fact, try and find a post of mine in any thread ever on Jazzfanz that has anything similar to that statement.

c) i)of course hell have more rebounds, he's a goddamn POWER FORWARD. Its just like me saying "Oh well Hayward has more assists!!1!!1", Its to be expected.
ii) lol, patrick patterson scored more points off of .2 less minutes. What you didn't include, is the fact that Hayward scored more points on average after the all-star break, with his ppg regressing as the season came to a close (despite the rockets being in the playoff race), with Gordon Hayward peaking at 16.8 ppg in the final month of the NBA.
d) OMG, efficiency ratings. Not gonna even reply to the absurdity of this remark, especially since you're comparing the efficiency of a guard to forwards.
e) Alright, lets compare::

Jordan Crawford: 38.4 FG%, shot 25.8% from 3 last year.....lol. Also played much more minutes than hayward especially after being traded to the wizards (averaged 31 with them). Great comparison champ.
Gary Neal: Pretty weird comparison, especially since he's a point guard, but hey what the hell. As a point guard averaging 21 mpg, Gary Neal averaged 1.2 dimes a game. Hayward averaged .1 less. Gordon Hayward also averaged more assists AS A SMALL FORWARD after the all-star break than Gary Neal did. Lets also remind ourselves that Gordon Hayward had both a greater FG% and a 3P% than Neal
Paul George: I am personally quite a serious fan, and I think it will be interesting to see who between Hayward and George ends up panning out as the better pick. As seen with most other comparisons, Hayward dominated George statistically on almost all accounts (assists, 3p%, FG%, PPG, TOs) with only George only rebounding better, after the all-star break. George also averaged more minutes over the season. So unfortunately for you, your bubble has been burst again.

And its funny, because in the end of the day, the only reason I ended up calling you out for your stupidity is because of this:




Way worse?!?! Really? Its funny, because now you are arguing that all of the players are just simply a bit better. Your initial point was that the Hayward pick was metaphorical garbage compared to the slew of other players selected after him. Now we are quickly realizing that you are horribly wrong (even after you changed your point) and the most of us are right. Good talk though.

Game. Set. Match.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Game. Set. Match.

Yep.
I don't want to look it up; it's late. But didn't Honzward have the BEST 3 pt FG% in the league after the break? Was it also just a coincidence that his tormentor, Deron Williams, had been traded? Remember the early season public abuse Gordon took for running a play wrong? Many of us were calling "bust" after the first 3 months, then Gordon found his groove. What is perhaps most encouraging is Hayward looks like he can play 2 positions. And not like CJ or Ronnie Brewer could play SG/SF. Hayward looks like he'll legitimately be able to match up against most SF's (and if Utah runs into a bigger, stronger one...well, that's when Millsap takes over at the 3). And, much to my surprise, Gordon also looks like he may very well be quick enough to go up against most SG's.

Oh yeah, and we should also take age into considerartion. Out of all the players cited by AKMVP, Hayward is 1-2 years younger. Yes, Utah drafted a very raw player in Hayward. KOC also traded for an even YOUNGER guy in Favors. I think Utah was counting on these players taking some time to develop.

By the way, AKMVP, way back in 2001, the Jazz brought aboard a young 20 yr. old rookie. He played 26 mins/per and averaged 10.7 pts on 45% shooting (and a HORRID 25% from 3-pt range). Hayward shot nearly 4 % higher overall and almost double from 3 pt range of that rookie we had 10 years ago. Care to guess who that was?

 

[Craig K. Manscill]

Some things aren't meant to be forever. When the tide came in, DWill decided he wanted out. The Sloan feud was the straw that broken the haystack, splintering our team into factions, one never to return.

I can see why you have that opinion, Matt, but my point here is that if O'Conner DID draft those players, we would have never found ourselves in this situation. We would be in different territory, and maybe this topic would never have been created. It would be a different time, a different place. Sometimes I wonder what it's like being underground, but then, the sunlight would have traveled there anyway I'm sure. What, water? Does that not work?

- Craig