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Joe Ingles vs. Russel Westbrook flagrant

The refs work directly for the NBA, correct?

I think the first thing that needs to happen is separation between the refs and the NBA. An NBA Referee Administration (NBARA) or Basketball Referee Association (BRA) should be formed as a separate independent entity that is contracted by the NBA to referee their games. The BRA should have a charter that specifically prohibits collusion between them and the NBA on how when and whom the rules are applied. Or put more simply they should have an equal justice and non-discrimination policy that they pledge to uphold in how they officiate games. The Dick Bavetta types should be let go and only those who are dedicated to fair and uninfluenced officiating should remain. The NBA would be absolutely banned from having any direct contact with individual officials and all NBA to BRA communication should follow strict protocols and typically be held in transparent regularly scheduled meetings. A full report of all communication should be released and the BRA should indicate if and when they adjust their officiating standards. Individual referees should be subject to sophisticated statistical analysis and a report issued on their "style" (aka bias). Those who skew too far from the norm either in regular short bursts or over the long term should be terminated.

I really don't know why there is not advanced analytics on referees readily available to the public right now. I have seen interesting little factoids here and there, but where is the database for all accumulated statistical information of all of the NBA's referees. I'm sure there are real patterns that can be expressed statistically on how the NBA referees impact games.
 
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infection said:


It was ruled an offensive foul on Poeltl. And by the looks of it, San Antonio must have gotten a technical.
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So ridiculous. Couldn't sleep last night so I watched this from like 5 different angles and all Poetl did was turn around in a circle. He was already there and did not actively step in front of Westbrook. Westbrick ran around Poetl to grab Johnson.

I know this is partly the whole recency bias thing at work, but I legit feel the officiating is getting worse year over year, with more and more of the blatant bad calls/no-calls happening.
 
Gameface said:
The refs work directly for the NBA, correct?

I think the first thing that needs to happen is separation between the refs and the NBA. An NBA Referee Administration (NBARA) or Basketball Referee Association (BRA) should be formed as a separate independent entity that is contracted by the NBA to referee their games. The BRA should have a charter that specifically prohibits collusion between them and the NBA on how when and whom the rules are applied. Or put more simply they should have an equal justice and non-discrimination policy that they pledge to uphold in how they officiate games. The Dick Bavetta types should be let go and only those who are dedicated to fair and uninfluenced officiating should remain. The NBA would be absolutely banned from having any direct contact with individual officials and all NBA to BRA communication should follow strict protocols and typically be held in transparent regularly scheduled meetings. A full report of all communication should be released and the BRA should indicate if and when they adjust their officiating standards. Individual referees should be subject to sophisticated statistical analysis and a report issued on their "style" (aka bias). Those who skew too far from the norm either in regular short bursts or over the long term should be terminated.

I really don't know whey there is not advanced analytics on referees readily available to the public right now. I have seen interesting little factoids here and there, but where is the database for all accumulated statistical information of all of the NBA's referees. I'm sure there are real patterns that can be expressed statistically on how the NBA referees impact games.
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Of course they have the data, we see it in the 2 min reports and there is no way someone suddenly starts keeping track the second the 2 min mark is passed in every game. They just don't want to publicize it because they did so with the 2 min reports but nothing changed as a result, and it just lead to more fans complaining. They absolutely do not want that for the entire game time.
 
Gameface said:
The refs work directly for the NBA, correct?

I think the first thing that needs to happen is separation between the refs and the NBA. An NBA Referee Administration (NBARA) or Basketball Referee Association (BRA) should be formed as a separate independent entity that is contracted by the NBA to referee their games. The BRA should have a charter that specifically prohibits collusion between them and the NBA on how when and whom the rules are applied. Or put more simply they should have an equal justice and non-discrimination policy that they pledge to uphold in how they officiate games. The Dick Bavetta types should be let go and only those who are dedicated to fair and uninfluenced officiating should remain. The NBA would be absolutely banned from having any direct contact with individual officials and all NBA to BRA communication should follow strict protocols and typically be held in transparent regularly scheduled meetings. A full report of all communication should be released and the BRA should indicate if and when they adjust their officiating standards. Individual referees should be subject to sophisticated statistical analysis and a report issued on their "style" (aka bias). Those who skew too far from the norm either in regular short bursts or over the long term should be terminated.

I really don't know why there is not advanced analytics on referees readily available to the public right now. I have seen interesting little factoids here and there, but where is the database for all accumulated statistical information of all of the NBA's referees. I'm sure there are real patterns that can be expressed statistically on how the NBA referees impact games.
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The refs will still get paid by the league, albeit indirectly. It’s like the difference between govie and a contractor. You still answer to the ones paying your salary.
 
jazzVA said:
The refs will still get paid by the league, albeit indirectly. It’s like the difference between govie and a contractor. You still answer to the ones paying your salary.
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I think it would make a difference for a couple reasons. First, as I understand it, the NBA sometimes communicates directly with referees as to their "priorities" and/or what sort of fouls to focus on or back off on. This happens more often during the playoffs and can happen on a game by game basis. To separate the Refs from this would be a huge first step. Second, as mentioned, the new organization would make a commitment to fairness. Maybe that sounds like hot air to you, but I think if you put the right person in charge of this and you make it part of the culture it will have a significant impact.
 
Absolutely insane that Joe gets ejected for what is arguable a common foul and Westbrook somehow draws an offensive foul here.

 
infection said:
Absolutely insane that Joe gets ejected for what is arguable a common foul and Westbrook somehow draws an offensive foul here.

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IMHO there is no way to argue Joe's foul was a common foul. It was a completely obvious flagrant 1 at least, and I don't think flagrant 2 was totally unwarranted either. I would be calling for that if this was some Kings player undercutting Donovan in mid-flight.

I didn't really re-watch the Westbrook situation that much (regarding the offensive foul on Poeltl), but I guess you can't give a flagrant if the play was stopped, but it feels like they could've at least given him a technical.
 
hgb said:
IMHO there is no way to argue Joe's foul was a common foul. It was a completely obvious flagrant 1 at least, and I don't think flagrant 2 was totally unwarranted either. I would be calling for that if this was some Kings player undercutting Donovan in mid-flight.

I didn't really re-watch the Westbrook situation that much (regarding the offensive foul on Poeltl), but I guess you can't give a flagrant if the play was stopped, but it feels like they could've at least given him a technical.
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The "foul" on Poetl was an excuse to not eject a key player for the Lakers. Watch it from different angles. Poetl literally just shuffles his feet in a circle. He didn't even step in front of Westbrick at all. Westbrick actually pushed his way around Poetl. It's a huge joke.
 
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