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Trade Rumors Involving the Jazz

TheStormofWar said:
Getting Simmons is like getting a bag of fruit you don't eat. It's just better in a compost heap and I can think of better things to spend that cap space on.
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Jazz could take Westbrook and waive him, that at least saves longer term salary. I don't think the Jazz are in any hurry to do that, but it's better than taking Simmons.
 
Ferguson_Mellochill said:
Jazz could take Westbrook and waive him, that at least saves longer term salary. I don't think the Jazz are in any hurry to do that, but it's better than taking Simmons.
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No argument there. Westbrook would be the ideal commander for this tank, if it were happening. Good locker room guy from what I remember and basketball skills that keep digging towards Challenger Deep.
 
sip said:
There is no comparison between the 2. When Malone left there was no advantage to us for the Lakers to be bad. With the Rudy trade our future assets are tied directly to the success or failure of the wolves. How some of you can't see that is crazy to me. I like Rudy but I sure as hell don't want the wolves to turn into a great team because that hurts us.
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Some people value things besides "what helps me/us", some don't seem to.
 
One Brow said:
It's a truly fragile ego that assume anyone who disagrees must not understand.

I understand your point completely. I just don't start from the same value-space that you do.
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I’m already passed this conversation and I have made my point already there is no need to continue it further.
 
Ben Simmons is a falling knife… who’s to say he is a buy low right now? It’s just like someone that says “I’ll buy Bitcoin when the market falls off and it’s at 30k” but guess what it can still fall a lot and when it does you don’t feel like you’ve definitely found the bottom. What if he can’t start to begin the season? His value will fall exponentially from where it is now. If they want to do it for JC and Bogey… okay great but I’m not giving a pick. There is a legit shot he doesn’t play basketball again. This feels like Larry Sanders or Royce White a little. So go ahead and try to catch a falling knife but even with just expirings it has a chance to cut you in meaningful ways.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Ben Simmons is a falling knife… who’s to say he is a buy low right now? It’s just like someone that says “I’ll buy Bitcoin when the market falls off and it’s at 30k” but guess what it can still fall a lot and when it does you don’t feel like you’ve definitely found the bottom. What if he can’t start to begin the season? His value will fall exponentially from where it is now. If they want to do it for JC and Bogey… okay great but I’m not giving a pick. There is a legit shot he doesn’t play basketball again. This feels like Larry Sanders or Royce White a little. So go ahead and try to catch a falling knife but even with just expirings it has a chance to cut you in meaningful ways.
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Lol. It's the riskiest of risky moves for sure. That bitcoin comparison is so incredibly spot on.

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NUMBERICA said:
Truly great players can be found in the 20's. Not that uncommon, actually. They can also be packaged to move up.
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Players that are better than Ayton as he is today or hell even in 2-3 years? It can happen but in all likelihood it won’t. For example, go back 5 total drafts and show me 1-2 players total who are as good or nearly as good as Ayton who was drafted in the 20’s. I already did it for you:

The best five best players drafted in the 20’s the last 5 drafts are OG Anunoby, Anfernee Simons, Jarrett Allen, Jordan Poole and Tyrese Maxey.

So if you’re lucky maybe one per draft? That’s pretty uncommon if you ask me. Are any of those guys better than Ayton?
 
The thing I’m looking at now is a potential Tobias Harris deal now that we have all these spare parts. The Philly pick situation is a little murky… but I think they can give up some picks with other conditions satisfied type of language. Bev, Bogey, etc for Tobias and picks is the type of buy low get some stuff type of package I’d look for.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
The thing I’m looking at now is a potential Tobias Harris deal now that we have all these spare parts. The Philly pick situation is a little murky… but I think they can give up some picks with other conditions satisfied type of language. Bev, Bogey, etc for Tobias and picks is the type of buy low get some stuff type of package I’d look for.
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I’m pretty sure only pick they could trade is their 2029 pick if they got rid of the protections on the 2025/2027 1sts they sent out.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
The thing I’m looking at now is a potential Tobias Harris deal now that we have all these spare parts. The Philly pick situation is a little murky… but I think they can give up some picks with other conditions satisfied type of language. Bev, Bogey, etc for Tobias and picks is the type of buy low get some stuff type of package I’d look for.
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Very interesting take. I didn't expect a Tobias deal idea from you.

Very risky, but it could work. The salary difference between Conley and Tobias isn't as much as most think.

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Elizah Huge said:
Players that are better than Ayton as he is today or hell even in 2-3 years? It can happen but in all likelihood it won’t. For example, go back 5 total drafts and show me 1-2 players total who are as good or nearly as good as Ayton who was drafted in the 20’s. I already did it for you:

The best five best players drafted in the 20’s the last 5 drafts are OG Anunoby, Anfernee Simons, Jarrett Allen, Jordan Poole and Tyrese Maxey.

So if you’re lucky maybe one per draft? That’s pretty uncommon if you ask me. Are any of those guys better than Ayton?
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Players (in their prime) I like more than Ayton available in the 20's or later in the last 10 years:
Draymond Green
Khris Middleton
Rudy (****ing) Gobert in a terrible draft
Nikola Jokic
Pascal Siakam
Dejounte Murray
Malcolm Brogdon
The 24th pick of the 2017 draft packaged with a bum to get Donovan Mitchell
Jordan Poole
Lu Dort
Tyrese Maxey
Desmond Bane

There are actually more players than that that I like more than Ayton. The point is not some conclusive objective analysis blah blah blah. Just that there are real players there and 2023 is supposed to be a great draft. You think rebuilds suck, I enjoy them and I think it's inevitable. I don't think Ayton in anyway aids a rebuild and I would dislike his presence in such an endeavor because he will either be good and prevent the team from bottoming out or will suck and be an underwater contract and bringing his big whatever vibes to the locker room. I think it is virtually impossible to buy-low if the contract is large enough (it seems pretty locked he's gonna make more than $100 million on his next deal), the transactional price is high enough (I don't think it's as low as people are discussing), and/or the opportunity cost is high enough ($100 million in owed salaries for a team that should be operating at or below the cap is $100 million less in space you can use to take bad contracts and picks, which I would guess nets you in the realm of 5 firsts and 10 seconds).

TLDR; we see this situation very differently.
 
Really, who says no to....

Conley for Powell and Bullock

Dallas replaces Brunson. They've already replaced Powell with Christian Wood. Losing Bullock stings a little, but Hardaway will be back.

We get two expiring role players.

The money is almost exactly the same this year.

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The most realistic trade that I think could happen today is this:

Jazz out: Bogdanovic, 2023 Minnesota 1st, 2023 Philadelphia 1st

Jazz in: Ayton

Suns out: Ayton, Bridges, Johnson, Crowder, 23/25/27/29 1sts, 24/26/28 pick swaps

Suns in: Kevin Durant

Nets out: Kevin Durant

Nets in: Bridges,Johnson, Crowder, Bogdanovic, 23/25/27/29 Phoenix 1sts, 2023 Minnesota 1st, 2023 Philadelphia 1st and 24/26/28 Phoenix pick swaps

Brooklyn gets 6 1sts for Durant plus Bridges/Johnson and expiring contracts.

We get Ayton for Bogey and 2 late firsts.

Phoenix gets Durant for their package and we help by pushing it over the top by adding 2 firsts to the deal.
 
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