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Jazz should trade for youth and picks and tank the season.

BluesRocker said:
No one is saying lose on purpose. What we are saying is that you have to be realistic. The team as it sits is a first round playoff exit or last in the lottery. That's the worse place to be is right in the middle. The team has to be able to recognize that the older players we have now are not going to lead us to a championship ever. And the young guys won't be ready for a few years. So there is no point in teaming them up together. You trade away the older players for draft picks if you can. If not then don't trade them. You do this knowing that you won't be in that middle ground area.

I mean C'Mon man! In two years from now do you want to be re-upping Jefferson for another 14 mil a year for 5 years.
And in-between now and then are we going to win a championship? Or are we going to let Jefferson walk after we paid 3 first rounders for him? Or let Millsap walk and get nothing? Just like we do for all our talent that comes through here.

Be realistic!
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What is wrong with being in the middle for this team. I get you don't want to get stuck there. But with a very young an inexperienced team full of players with good upside. Being in the middle of the pack with this team would be very encouraging. I don't think this team makes the playoffs and I really don't think they win a playoff game. But I will be very happy if they do. Especially if they go that far with the young guys as major rotation players.
 
gregbroncs said:
I like the depth and talent on this team now. Bell is the only player I want gone. And him being deep on the bench is good enough. If he plays more than 10 Minutes a night I will not be happy though.
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Agree. As for being "in the middle," I can see negatives and positives. Make the playoffs and we convey a pick to the TPups a year earlier. One would hope our picks become less valuable as our record improves each season so this would be the year to miss the playoffs and land in the lottery. However, if the Jazz DO make the playoffs, that probably means multiple young guys are improving faster and playing better than we had hoped. So that may mean we have less need of a top pick and can just the TPE and/or trade of Harris, Jefferson, etc. on a veteran point and wing to acquire the complementary piece(s) to the Favors, Kanter, Millsap, Hayward, Burks core.
 
PKM said:
I'm all for tanking a game or two at the end of the season (also known as protecting your assets) when the outcome is already known, but to tank a SEASON is sinful, cowardly, and dumb.

I think most are really saying they hope we have a great season, but there's also an upside to having a poor season.
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It got The San Antonio Spurs 4 rings so every knuckle head nut who either doesn't know or understand the circumstances surrounding that move thinks tanking the season automatically equals 25 more wins the next season.
 
Jesus....
Don't the Jazz have enough youth yet?
Or are we going to become the next Sacramento, and continue to trade player after player for pick after pick?

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BluesRocker said:
No one is saying lose on purpose. What we are saying is that you have to be realistic. The team as it sits is a first round playoff exit or last in the lottery. That's the worse place to be is right in the middle. The team has to be able to recognize that the older players we have now are not going to lead us to a championship ever. And the young guys won't be ready for a few years. So there is no point in teaming them up together. You trade away the older players for draft picks if you can. If not then don't trade them. You do this knowing that you won't be in that middle ground area.

I mean C'Mon man! In two years from now do you want to be re-upping Jefferson for another 14 mil a year for 5 years.
And in-between now and then are we going to win a championship? Or are we going to let Jefferson walk after we paid 3 first rounders for him? Or let Millsap walk and get nothing? Just like we do for all our talent that comes through here.

Be realistic!
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So you want us to be the next Clippers. What happens if the draft picks don't pan out? It would set us back 3 to 5 years, and the cycle begins all over again.

C'mon man!! Be realistic.

The young players will get their minutes. The Okur trade will clear up minutes for Kanter. Next year Kanter and Burks will be ready for bigger minutes just like Hayward and Favors this year. The young guys will be helped by the vets and vice versa.
 
I think the "2-year plan" the Jazz seem to be on is realistic and wise. Hold enough vets to remain competitive and allow the young guys to learn in an atmosphere where at least they have a chance most games, yet don't backload the deals so much we are tied into this group past when they lose their trade values. In 2-3 years we will know exactly what we have with our new guys and a solid chunk of expirings to reload around the young guys who step up. I think for long-term success, and short-term gains, this is a good mix. I am way excited for the next 2 years.
 
BluesRocker said:
Or are we going to let Jefferson walk after we paid 3 first rounders for him? Or let Millsap walk and get nothing? Just like we do for all our talent that comes through here.

Be realistic!
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Wait the Jazz lose their players and/or draft picks for nothing? They may have lost them but do you really not know the assets that have comeback?
 
Lol I am not saying lose on purpose. I'm saying let's trade away our veterans like Jefferson and Harris to contending teams for young players. Therefore we get younger players, get to develop burks, favors, kanter and Hayward and we get another solid draft position. We could easily get a couple of good young players from desperate teams looking to contend. This is not the same as just purposely losing every game. Use your brains...
 
NUMBERICA said:
I agree with some of this, but slow down. Veterans still serve a longterm purpose and teams still need to have a certain amount of salary committed. Also, doing anything with purposeful losing as a motive is something that teams should be very wary of, IMO.

That said, I don't see Harris or Jefferson as Jazz players now, and I don't see them as good pieces to have when this ship gets turned around. I do think they have positive market value now, though. I don't think I have to finish this thought.
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i do think the same
 
utahjazz107 said:
Lol I am not saying lose on purpose. I'm saying let's trade away our veterans like Jefferson and Harris to contending teams for young players. Therefore we get younger players, get to develop burks, favors, kanter and Hayward and we get another solid draft position. We could easily get a couple of good young players from desperate teams looking to contend. This is not the same as just purposely losing every game. Use your brains...
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28 and 26 years old is young.
 
I mean C'Mon man! In two years from now do you want to be re-upping Jefferson for another 14 mil a year for 5 years.
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I would do that i a heartbeat. Boozer is making more than that and I think Jefferson is better than Boozer. Besides, what is it with people calling Jefferson old? Like Silencer just posted, 28 and 26 is young, they are in their primes. Al has at least one more solid 5 year contract in him, even after two more seasons, and Harris (if he ends up fitting in the system) would be fine for maybe a 3 year declining vet salary after his two years. My point is that the only real Vets on the team with more than a year on their deal are Watson and Raja, both of whom have very reasonable contracts.

Status Quo is fine.
 
Oh yes, and as far as whether they can help us win a championship, Harris has been to the finals, and as Sloan always preached, playoff experience is vital to winning in the playoffs. And Al was a 20 and ten guy before he worked his butt off this off-season improving his vertical and his agility. He may be better than Favors.

(stunned silence)

We don't know yet. They are different types of players, but Jefferson looks like a tank, he's slimmer while weighing more, that's all solid muscle. Anyone remember him saying 'I like the paint'? All I'm saying is lets see how things go. It'll be a year or two before Kanter is experienced enough to start, and Millsap apparantly is willing to come off the bench. Teams are required to have 13 players and 80ish percent salary filled. Why not use it on good players? Jazz rock on second round picks, and we just got a good one from the knicks.
 
In two years from now do you want to be re-upping Jefferson for another 14 mil a year for 5 years.
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cctrackstar said:
I would do that i a heartbeat.
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Good idea if you completely ignore things like the salary cap, and the fact that we are going to have to pay other players.

I like Big Al as a player, but that contract is already a concern for this team going forward. Unless Utah is in the playoff hunt this year, I think there's a good chance Al may be next in line to be moved.
 
https://hoopshype.com/salaries/utah.htm

The Jazz are rougly 16 million under the luxury tax right now, if you add the players they have signed at close to the veterans minimum. Harris is being overpaid in my opinion, and should either take a declining veteran pay next contract or leave the team. I doubt Al gets more than he's making next year when his new deal comes along. That gives the Jazz quite a bit of wiggle room to re-sign their talent. Favors will likely get the biggest chunk of that, followed by Burks. Hayward doesn't have the kind of game that a star player would demand so hopefully his raise will be minimal. Burks is up in the air, but if his game demands a raise, we are in great shape for a championship. Lastly, Enes may be problematic, being a big with talent, but again, if he deserves a big raise, than we are doing good for a championship.

My point is, you pay your talent, and Al has many many good years left in him. He won't be peaking for several more years, so why throw him away?
 
cctrackstar said:
https://hoopshype.com/salaries/utah.htm

The Jazz are rougly 16 million under the luxury tax right now, if you add the players they have signed at close to the veterans minimum. Harris is being overpaid in my opinion, and should either take a declining veteran pay next contract or leave the team. I doubt Al gets more than he's making next year when his new deal comes along. That gives the Jazz quite a bit of wiggle room to re-sign their talent. Favors will likely get the biggest chunk of that, followed by Burks. Hayward doesn't have the kind of game that a star player would demand so hopefully his raise will be minimal. Burks is up in the air, but if his game demands a raise, we are in great shape for a championship. Lastly, Enes may be problematic, being a big with talent, but again, if he deserves a big raise, than we are doing good for a championship.

My point is, you pay your talent, and Al has many many good years left in him. He won't be peaking for several more years, so why throw him away?
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Until Al proves he can run the system and play better defense his future on the team is in serious question. He is in his prime which is when players are supposed to put up their best performances. If he shows that he can't pass, won't box out and will not improve defensively then he is not long for this team. I would not be surprised to see him or Millsap moved before the trade deadline. Al has talent. The question is, can he use his talent in conjuction with a team. And can that talent be used to win playoff games. Those are things we have not seen and must if we are to keep him.
 
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